Is Masturbation A Mortal Sin?

July 15, 2003

The Church makes no claim on belief when it comes down to determining whether or not something is a sin. The Truths that She teaches are not in anyway defined by our belief in them---I can believe that pink bunnies stole my shoes, but that doesn't make it so. If we know the teachings of the Church and are not even trying to conform to them we are damning ourselves. If we know and try to obey, but sometimes fail then that is why God made the Confessional.

If you have knowledge of what the Church teaches and you haven't been granted the gift of believing that it is true ask God to give you the gift submission, of obedience, to what you can't understand and don't want to accept.

July 16, 2003

If we know the teachings of the Church and are not even trying to conform to them we are damning ourselves. If we know and try to obey, but sometimes fail then that is why God made the Confessional.

If you have knowledge of what the Church teaches and you haven't been granted the gift of believing that it is true ask God to give you the gift submission, of obedience, to what you can't understand and don't want to accept.

God has graced you Hyper. I think that is absolutely right. A very tough lesson to learn, comprehend, and live with. I wish I had an inkling of that 20 years ago.

July 16, 2003

Thank you jas!

July 16, 2003

I've always wondered- is any sin a mortal sin if it meets the requirements of foreknowledge that it is sinful and it is done with intent? Or is there a specific list of sins somewhere that can be mortal?

Go read St. Pauls list of mortal sins.

July 16, 2003

I've always wondered- is any sin a mortal sin if it meets the requirements of foreknowledge that it is sinful and it is done with intent? Or is there a specific list of sins somewhere that can be mortal?

You might want to pi8ck up a copy of Making Choices: finding black and white in a world of gray by Peter Kreeft.

One of the best books out there.

July 17, 2003

Sin is sin whether or not we believe it to be. We can also discern the severety of a sin, by how much damage it does to your relationship with God and the Church. Masturbation does grave damage to both. It doesn't matter whether you believe it does or not, it simply does. You may not believe gravity exists, but you'll fall if you jump off a cliff.

I wrote down some of the reasons why masturbation is a sin in another thread. They weren't church teaching but real physical evidence of the harm that act does to ourselves and our relationships. Sin hurts, and mortal sin kills. Masturbating under full knowledge of Church teaching on lust and chastity is akin to committing suicide. We end our relationship with God definitavely. This is not to say He has stopped loving us or some nonsense, but that we make a conscious choice to turn our backs on Him.

July 18, 2003

::Raises her hands with a question::

If Masturbation is a sin, and masturbating as opposed to having sex (making love) with your partner is adultery/cheating...then does mutual masturbation in the realm of foreplay leading to intercourse also count as sin? Is foreplay in itself sinful?

Honestly...I don't get it.

July 18, 2003

::Raises her hands with a question::

If Masturbation is a sin, and masturbating as opposed to having sex (making love) with your partner is adultery/cheating...then does mutual masturbation in the realm of foreplay leading to intercourse also count as sin? Is foreplay in itself sinful?

Honestly...I don't get it.

No, it's not a sin. Masturbation leading to intercourse between a married couple is part of the larger picture of intercourse. Now if masturbation was used by a married couple to avoid intercourse, that very well could be another thing. It's the intent and/or purpose. In the larger context, if it is part of sexual union of married persons open to the gift of life, it's okay. If it is used to close sexual relations to the possiblitlity of life, then it's a problem. Just like Natural Family Planning is to be useful to a couple being obedient to God and responsible as parents can also be abused for the wrong purpose.

July 18, 2003

O.K., Is it just me...or does it seem only practical that in the long run less people be having sex...

if all this foreplay should lead to intercourse...

and if intercourse is only to lead to childbirth...

then aren't we in trouble?

I am not going to get into the whole resource debate...but the fact is the population is going to double in the next 100-1000 years...that 12 Billion people folks...if we don't cease with the baby making...or start adopting kids (which should happen anyway).

Edited July 18, 2003 by FreeSoul

July 18, 2003

I am not going to get into the whole resource debate...but the fact is the population is going to double in the next 100-1000 years...that 12 Billion people folks...if we don't cease with the baby making...or start adopting kids (which should happen anyway).

Please cite your sources for this information.

July 18, 2003

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/...ion/pc0012.html

http://www.petersnet.net/browse/1024.htm

http://sycophants.info/overpopulation.html

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/...ion/pc0013.html

http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/over...rpopulation.asp

Here are just a few sources that say just the opposite about overpopulation...the US and Europe and its contraceptive mentality are contracepting ourselves out of existance....and we are forcing this on other countries calling it "population control".

July 18, 2003

Alright, I already study anthropology...so I know exactly how many sources there are on this topic. I just ran about and found some sources that are neutral..i.e. non-denominational sites...and sites which are non partisan population control/related issues.

There's even a course specifically on it at U of T

http://www.geog.utoronto.ca/programs/geog/...323_2003-04.htm

Actually, First let me state what I already know before citing sources. There have been approximately three significant shifts in world culture which resutled in radical growth of our population the last being the Industrial Revoution. It took a long time before we reached the first billion people and in less than 200 years that doubled.

We all know population growth is exponential so, it is next to impossible to refute this unless it is possible to prove that people are just not having sex...or just really infertile.

6 Billion People + People having sex = More people.

Here are some more links:

http://www.ecology.com/ecology-public-heal...population1.htm

http://www.harc.edu/global_commons.html

(Monsanto is a nasty Multinational which bio-patents seeds using the need to feed people for silly ends...my point against them is...the end doesn't justify the means...sustainable development works just as well)

http://www.monsantoindia.com/biobasic/biobasic.html

From the United States Geological Survey: It's an article on sustainable development..but almost any article on sustainable development comments on population growth here's the link

http://www.usgs.gov/public/press/public_af...ses/pr890m.html

An excerpt from some Joe's research at Yale University

http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units...98.07.06.x.html

July 18, 2003

O.K., Is it just me...or does it seem only practical that in the long run less people be having sex...

if all this foreplay should lead to intercourse...

and if intercourse is only to lead to childbirth...

then aren't we in trouble?

Not all intercourse leads to childbirth. A female is only fertile for only a few days of her entire cycle (2-3 days).

July 18, 2003

A few points, Free Soul.

No body is denying that the parents decision to have children should responsibly consider their ability to raise and care for the child.

NFP is a morally acceptable method of responsibly controlling conception. Masturbation is not.

As populations have increased, technology has also increased food production and resource distribution. Most famines are not caused strictly because of natural deficiencies such as droughts. They are caused by political problems with distributing food resources to naturally stricken areas.

We are not alone on this world. God is here with us. He works wonders through us when we cooperate with Him. We shouldn't be ignorant about our responsiblities, but there's no point in being overly pessimistic.

July 18, 2003

So sites that are non -demoninational are truthful , and the Catholic Church site' s are not?

THe problem is not too many people, the problem is the unfair distribution of resources and technology.

The countries listed that have a high birthrate also have extrememly high death rates as well.

July 18, 2003

Yup...shes only fertile for a few days...but how many woman on earth have children?

This has nothing to do with contraception for me. I don't like it or need it.

This has nothing to do with abortion for me. I don't like that either.

This has nothing to do with wealth distribution for me...if we use a sustainable development approach to wealth, it won't matter.

So don't say that I'm trying to support some agenda. I'm not. I am however concerned with academic credibility.

Also....

I trust someone who studies the subject over someone who is catholic and researches it. Catholics have a reason to state that the population is declining rapidly...that 'we're in danger of extinction' or whathaveyou....there is a Catholic agenda.

People who want contraception obviously use the 'population bomb' thing to suppor their agenda too.

But joeschmo at Yale doesn't care. S/he is more interested in the numbers and the credibility of their research....therefore I trust them first.

If Catholics are going to avoid using birth control...and start having sex...they should be doing so in the realm of reality...if there is going to be at some point...be it in 100 years...or 1000....a doubling of the population....and eventually it WILL happen they should also be concerned for the future generations because it only makes sense. Of course all this can be done within the scope of choosing a suitable vocation.

NOTE: There are much larger organisations than the sites listed below which address the reality of population growth such as Caritas International which is the official development agency of the Church. These groups are much more equiped to do research on these topics...just as universities and ngo's are...

July 18, 2003

Oh and one more thing....

I wasn't advocating masturbation as a method of birth control. Just saying that if we are only going to be having sex...and only for the sake of life in relationship...that we need to consider the concequences....in a realistic framework. I don't think that's pessimistic.

July 18, 2003

So sites that are non -demoninational are truthful , and the Catholic Church site' s are not?

In a nutshell, no....but they are less accurate. I prefer accuracy to an agenda which just sounds nice to me. I need to question even my own thoughts.

THe problem is not too many people, the problem is the unfair distribution of resources and technology.

I agree...SEE: This has nothing to do with wealth distribution for me...if we use a sustainable development approach to wealth, it won't matter.

The countries listed that have a high birthrate also have extrememly high death rates as well.

That's true CMom, but whether it takes 100 or 1000 years the reprocussions will be the same unless we address the problem from a realistic standpoint. Unless a giant group of people get wiped out by a tsunami....the population will continue to grow.

July 18, 2003

So you assume that the "academic" doesn't have an agenda , and the catholic does.

THat is incredibly naive.

There are lies, beaver dam lies, and statistics.

Isn't Yale the university where they keep a professor who thinks we should be able to kill our children until they are a month old? Or is that a differnet one of our vaunted institutions.

July 18, 2003

Isn't Yale the university where they keep a professor who thinks we should be able to kill our children until they are a month old?

Yup...and at Western did you see what happened to the professor who tried to 'academically explain' that asians were smarter than caucasians who were smarter than african people? Did you see what happened to him?

I always believe people have agendas...but an academic is only as effective as s/he is credible. And a Catholic doesn't need to care..or fear losing their job over it in the same way an academic does....there are too many checks and balances for academics.

I'm too much of a skeptic to be naiive.

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