The Church's real enemies

[Qoheleth]

Intellectual would have been a better word. On average, the intelligentsia has only disdain for Christianity, much more so traditional Catholicism. And the intelligentsia within the Church is with few exceptions not excluded from this.

[journeyman]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='May 30 2005, 01:19 PM']
[QUOTE]
There was a quote from sister jeanine garmick "the Church ideas should reflect the voice of the people." NO sister it should not. It never has and it never will. When Jesus was alive did he reflect the voice of his people, the Jews?? OF COURSE NOT! His message was unpopular and so is the Church's with many people. This is not a democracy.

[B]Sister is giving a serious misrepresentation of a famous quote, -- vox populi, vox Dei--this only holds true when the people, aka faithful, are in communion with God's Church. There is a concept of the infallibility of the faithful but it rests on the aforementioned caveat. the faithful must in full communion with the orthodox teaching of Holy Mother Church. Sister Garmick, has been silenced by the church, and so she is feeling a bit bitter, I would assume.[B]


[/quote]
or the concept of sensus fidei . . . perhaps failing to realize that "all" the people are not yet in agreement

91 All the faithful share in understanding and handing on revealed truth. They have received the anointing of the Holy Spirit, who instructs them[53] and guides them into all truth.[54]
92 "The whole body of the faithful. . . cannot err in matters of belief. This characteristic is shown in the supernatural appreciation of faith (sensus fidei) on the part of the whole people, when, from the bishops to the last of the faithful, they manifest a universal consent in matters of faith and morals."[55]
93 "By this appreciation of the faith, aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth, the People of God, guided by the sacred teaching authority (Magisterium),. . . receives. . . the faith, once for all delivered to the saints. . . The People unfailingly adheres to this faith, penetrates it more deeply with right judgment, and applies it more fully in daily life."[56]

Cf. 1 Jn 2:20, 27.
Cf. Jn 16:13.
LG 12; cf. St. Augustine, De praed. sanct. 14, 27: PL 44, 980.
LG 12; cf. Jude 3.

[Mikhail]

Book burnings? Yea, that will really solve the problem. Solve it like blowing up an abortion clinic would. You don't have to read these books. In order to burn it you'd have to buy it which would only give them more money to print more. Ignoring it would be much more effective.

[Qoheleth]

But book burnings are much more fun than ignoring it.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='journeyman' date='May 30 2005, 05:20 PM'] or the concept of sensus fidei . . . perhaps failing to realize that "all" the people are not yet in agreement

91 All the faithful share in understanding and handing on revealed truth. They have received the anointing of the Holy Spirit, who instructs them[53] and guides them into all truth.[54]
92 "The whole body of the faithful. . . cannot err in matters of belief. This characteristic is shown in the supernatural appreciation of faith (sensus fidei) on the part of the whole people, when, from the bishops to the last of the faithful, they manifest a universal consent in matters of faith and morals."[55]
93 "By this appreciation of the faith, aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth, the People of God, guided by the sacred teaching authority (Magisterium),. . . receives. . . the faith, once for all delivered to the saints. . . The People unfailingly adheres to this faith, penetrates it more deeply with right judgment, and applies it more fully in daily life."[56]

Cf. 1 Jn 2:20, 27.
Cf. Jn 16:13.
LG 12; cf. St. Augustine, De praed. sanct. 14, 27: PL 44, 980.
LG 12; cf. Jude 3. [/quote]
what are you saying? that only applies if the people are in communion with the Church...and anyone with these views is not.

[Semalsia]

[quote name='Mikhail']Book burnings? Yea, that will really solve the problem. Solve it like blowing up an abortion clinic would. You don't have to read these books. In order to burn it you'd have to buy it which would only give them more money to print more. Ignoring it would be much more effective.[/quote]

Good to hear a voice of reason, I was starting to get scared among these burning books here.

Societies that burn books usually end up burning people, you know. (And I base that on absolutely nothing.)

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='May 30 2005, 06:26 PM'] [quote name='Mikhail']Book burnings? Yea, that will really solve the problem. Solve it like blowing up an abortion clinic would. You don't have to read these books. In order to burn it you'd have to buy it which would only give them more money to print more. Ignoring it would be much more effective.[/quote]

Good to hear a voice of reason, I was starting to get scared among these burning books here.

Societies that burn books usually end up burning people, you know. (And I base that on absolutely nothing.) [/quote]
Hahahaha

Like I said earlier - ignorance is never the solution

[journeyman]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='May 30 2005, 06:14 PM'] what are you saying? that only applies if the people are in communion with the Church...and anyone with these views is not. [/quote]
if everyone in the Sister's community feels the way she does, then perhaps she thinks her point of view has more validity . . . and that she is in communion

she may think that she represents the sensus fidei

hence my point that perhaps she was unaware that "all" the people of the church were not in agreement

[Qoheleth]

[quote name='journeyman' date='May 30 2005, 07:53 PM'] if everyone in the Sister's community feels the way she does, then perhaps she thinks her point of view has more validity . . . and that she is in communion

she may think that she represents the sensus fidei [/quote]
Or worse, she may feel like she has some need to "enlighten" the Church to a new level of permissiveness.

[journeyman]

which gets back to the question that if she knows she's in the minority and that church teaching says to the contrary, why does she want to retain the Catholic identity . . . many priests and nuns left the church (or at least their place in it) when their personal desires ran contrary to the church teachings . . .

what is it she wants to keep? what are the shared values?

[Socrates]

[quote name='journeyman' date='May 30 2005, 08:38 PM'] which gets back to the question that if she knows she's in the minority and that church teaching says to the contrary, why does she want to retain the Catholic identity . . . many priests and nuns left the church (or at least their place in it) when their personal desires ran contrary to the church teachings . . . 

what is it she wants to keep?  what are the shared values? [/quote]
Good questions.

Unfortunately, this is true of many dissident "Catholics" who have lost the Faith.
Ask this to Phatmass' own Littleles. (But don't expect a straight reply).

Edited May 31, 2005 by Socrates