salvation argument

[HomeTeamFamily]

is it accurate to say that the catholic position on faith/works is that the act of the work itself is not saving, but rather the faith that caused the act?

so essentially, the faith saves us, but only if it manifests itself in works?

[Paphnutius]

I believe that the stance is that God will also judge us according to works. Look up the following: Rom 2:5-8, 2 Cor 5:10, 11:15, 1 Pet 1:17, Rev 20:12-13, Col 3:24-25

From the CCC

679 Christ is Lord of eternal life. Full right to pass definitive judgement on the works and hearts of men belongs to him as redeemer of the world. He "acquired" this right by his cross. The Father has given "all judgement to the Son". 586 Yet the Son did not come to judge, but to save and to give the life he has in himself. 587 By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one's works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love. 588

[HomeTeamFamily]

agreed, but if i do a work for a reason other than its a result of my faith in Jesus, then that is not a saving work

[Qoheleth]

[quote]For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead.
James 2:26
[/quote]

[quote]When he comes at the end of time to judge the living and the dead, the glorious Christ will reveal the secret disposition of hearts and will render to each man [b]according to his works[/b] and according to his acceptance or refusal of grace.
CCC 682[/quote]

I think the Church's teaching is that true faith cannot exist without works, and will inevitably be reflected by works. If you truly believe in the Gospel, then the teachings of Christ compel you to good works. So in judging us by our works, God takes the measure of our faith: is it just words, or something more? So, despite what Jack Chick might argue, to "confess with your mouth" is not enough. Catholics confess that Jesus is Lord with both their mouths and their hands.

Is there anything in the Catechism about non-Christian good works? I couldn't find anything.

[Qoheleth]

Eureka!

[quote] "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and [b]does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it[/b], can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
CCC 1260[/quote]

So non-Christian good works can help towards salvation, as long as the person does not personally reject Christ.

[Apotheoun]

Salvation involves a true synergy (cooperative energy) between God and man.

In other words, both faith and works are gifts of God's grace ([i]divine energy[/i]), while also being the fruit of man's cooperative [i]energies[/i]. As St. Paul said, ". . . work out ([i]katergazesthe[/i]) your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work ([i]energon[/i]) in you, both to will ([i]thelien[/i]) and to work ([i]energein[/i]) for His good pleasure." [Philippians 2:12b-13]

[Qoheleth]

Thanks, Apotheoun. You've done it again.