Star Wars III *spoilers included*

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Forget for a moment that Star Wars is based on dualism and pantheism. Forget that it is New Age dribble, theologically speaking. Let's pretend that it's themes have been translated to a Catholic understanding of theology, particularly of the dynamics of good and evil.

Obi Wan says to Anakin, aka Darth Vader, when he has switched to the dark side, "you were the chosen one! You were supposed to destroy the Sith, not join them!"

Jesus was the chosen one, how would we feel if He decided, instead of paying the debt on the Cross, to join Satan? We see Jesus tempted before He begins His ministry. What is He asked to do? Not terrible things (with the exception of worshipping Satan), but good things...to show forth the glory of God by changing a rock into a loaf of bread or by making the angels reveal themselves. Likewise, we see Darth Sidious, aka Emperor Palpatine, tempting Anakin to the dark side with promises of being able to save the life of his beloved Padme. We see him using good to try to evoke evil. We must remember that the ends do not justify the means.

Jesus rejected Satan's temptations. How would we feel if He had not? Our salvation and all our hope would be lost. Imagine the terrible pain Obi Wan must have felt when he said those words.

Now imagine something else. We are the chosen ones. Each and every one of us is meant and was made to share in Christ's ministry, work, and salvation. We were meant to be "Jedi" in a sense, we were meant to be heroes, knights, soldiers with Him, using gifts beyond explanation to bring about good in the world and to win souls.

How do we feel when we fail? When we "switch to the dark side"? Do we see ourselves with those dark, menacing eyes of the new Darth Vader? Do we see the arrogance and pride we carry? Do we think we're incapable of more evil, or, muttering the phrase, "there but for the grace of God go I," do we recall the evils of murder committed in the Jedi Temple, even against the most innocent?

Can we imagine Jesus looking at us and speaking like Obi Wan, "you were the chosen one! You were supposed to destroy evil, not add to it! I gave you gifts and weapons, I trained you, I supported you! You were like a brother to me!"

Yet, like Anakin, we broke the rules and we had to hide it all, as he hid his wife. Imagine the embarassment and the grief when Obi Wan discovered Padme's husband was Anakin. Why hadn't Anakin told him? They could have done something, but instead, he chose to try to cover it up and even to use the dark side to "fix" it. What did it lead to? He had anger and rage...he didn't try to help his problem with the dark side, he tried to destroy it, and the ones he loved were crushed.

Finally, we see the end result. It is fitting that Darth Vader loses so much when he is engulfed in flame in a hellish place. We hear his shallow breathing, we see his agony, and still his dark lord uses him, knowing that he has great power, and tries to keep him a warrior for evil.

Let's not be tools of Satan. Let's not allow ourselves to slip and fall, nor to hide our evils or flaws, nor to go to Satan for the solution. Light reveals all, and all will come to light. Light and love fix, and dark can only destroy.

Jesus loves us. He's our brother and He chose us, each of us, to do something great which no one else can do. We should take great honor in that. Let's not disappoint Him, for only in following this path of virtue can we truly be soldiers of God.

[DancesforLove]

Its just a movie lol...I love star wars!

[Qoheleth]

I think as a Christian I'm stuck in that scene where Anakin circles Palpatine, with his lightsaber drawn, debating whether or not to kill the man who has just revealed himself as the Dark Lord of the Sith. Do I have the strength to do it?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Qoheleth' date='May 30 2005, 03:33 PM'] I think as a Christian I'm stuck in that scene where Anakin circles Palpatine, with his lightsaber drawn, debating whether or not to kill the man who has just revealed himself as the Dark Lord of the Sith. Do I have the strength to do it? [/quote]
Interesting.

None of us has the strength. That's why we need Jesus, just as they need "the force"...of course, this can only be an approximate parallel, since we don't believe in the force, but you get the point.

We are weak...God is strong.

[Aloysius]

dude, this is not how you treat mythology. you're a classicist aren't you? do you often talk of stories of hercules relating them to Jesus to teach a lesson? I don't think so.

relating them as such puts the mythology on a level it was never meant to be on.

[sarcasmguy126]

no, I think Raphael is right in attempting to transform the many aspects of Lucas's "religion" into helpful Christian messages. I would have never even thought of it that way before! Kudos!!!

Raphael, check out my similiar topic in the board "Under 20 and Company (creepy aliens)". I think we might have something in common.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='May 30 2005, 03:43 PM'] dude, this is not how you treat mythology. you're a classicist aren't you? do you often talk of stories of hercules relating them to Jesus to teach a lesson? I don't think so.

relating them as such puts the mythology on a level it was never meant to be on. [/quote]
I'm not moving mythology to a divine level, I'm using universal truths present in a mythological story in order to illustrate a Christian point of view in a way which may be understood by our culture. This is why I stated clearly that Star Wars is NOT reconcilable with Catholic theology, but that there were some things we could learn if we "translated" it into our theology.

I suppose that we should stop looking to any and all literature as having any Christian message. So long JRR Tolkien...CS Lewis...

[Colleen]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='May 30 2005, 02:43 PM']dude, this is not how you treat mythology.  you're a classicist aren't you?  do you often talk of stories of hercules relating them to Jesus to teach a lesson?  I don't think so.

relating them as such puts the mythology on a level it was never meant to be on.[/quote]
I don't see what's wrong with it. . . .

Raphael has made it clear that Star Wars is incompatible with Catholic Theology. But I wouldn't go so far as to say you can't find Christian elements within myth, even if it is Star Wars.

J.R.R. Tolkien, the author of the [i]Lord of the Rings[/i] once had a conversation with C.S. Lewis, the author of the [i]Chronicles of Narnia[/i].

[quote] Myths, Lewis told Tolkien, were "lies and therefore worthless, even though breathed through silver."

"No," Tolkien replied. "They are not lies." Far from being lies they were the best way — sometimes the only way — of conveying truths that would otherwise remain inexpressible. We have come from God, Tolkien argued, and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily toward the true harbor, whereas materialistic "progress" leads only to the abyss and the power of evil.

. . .

Building on this philosophy of myth, Tolkien explained to Lewis that the story of Christ was the true myth at the very heart of history and at the very root of reality. Whereas the pagan myths were manifestations of God expressing Himself through the minds of poets, using the images of their "mythopoeia" to reveal fragments of His eternal truth, the true myth of Christ was a manifestation of God expressing Himself through Himself, with Himself, and in Himself. God, in the Incarnation, had revealed Himself as the ultimate poet who was creating reality, the true poem or true myth, in His own image. Thus, in a divinely inspired paradox, myth was revealed as the ultimate realism. [/quote]
[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/arts/al0107.html"]http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/arts/al0107.html[/url]

Lessons can be learned from mythology. Looking at Star Wars and trying to draw Christian parallels isn't necessarily wrong . . . what would be wrong is if you started believing in the myth itself, or tried to integrate its misguided ideas with Catholic theology. If you said, Anakin is Jesus or Darth Vader is the Devil, well, then that would be really wrong. But I don't think it's wrong to see parallels between Christian ideas and the story elements of Star Wars.

From the myth we can derive universal truths. Stories, be they Star Wars, the [i]Iliad[/i], or the [i]Lord of the Rings[/i] can be looked at as more than pure entertainment. A good story is one that conveys a universal truth. I really don't see what's so wrong with it.

[Old_Joe]

Anakin did not start off as evil. He clearly had a choice before him. He could've used his talents for good or for evil. Don't we face that same decision ourselves?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Old_Joe' date='May 30 2005, 04:19 PM'] Anakin did not start off as evil. He clearly had a choice before him. He could've used his talents for good or for evil. Don't we face that same decision ourselves? [/quote]
Yes, of course.

Although, mystical gifts and such could not be used for evil, but they are supernatural gifts, not natural ones.

[toledo_jesus]

he did the right thing by not killing palpatine then. he was still willing to go through the proper channels of authority...unfortunately the machinations of palpatine twisted anakin's perception of what was happening.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='May 30 2005, 06:22 PM'] he did the right thing by not killing palpatine then. he was still willing to go through the proper channels of authority...unfortunately the machinations of palpatine twisted anakin's perception of what was happening. [/quote]
I disagree. I think proper channels of authority are secular obstacles to doing the right thing.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='May 30 2005, 07:22 PM'] he did the right thing by not killing palpatine then. he was still willing to go through the proper channels of authority...unfortunately the machinations of palpatine twisted anakin's perception of what was happening. [/quote]
Oh yes, I agree that he should not kill Palpatine. We must respect authority, so long as it is not directly opposed in its individual factors to God's law.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Raphael' date='May 30 2005, 06:26 PM'] Oh yes, I agree that he should not kill Palpatine. We must respect authority, so long as it is not directly opposed in its individual factors to God's law. [/quote]
Which it so often is.

[Aloysius]

sorry, it's just that with Star Wars, it's not about who represents Jesus and who represents God... that's interpretting it on too high a level. like I said with like, a story about hercules. you wouldn't say hercules represents christ or whatever, you'd say oh well it's about strength or whatever the hercules thing is about...

anyway I'll butt out. I think the mere fact of mentioning it is incompatible with Catholic Theology puts it on a whole other level, as if it was even a question. anyway, I'm not sure I'll be able to get you to understand what I mean here, so again, I'm out.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='May 31 2005, 01:14 AM'] sorry, it's just that with Star Wars, it's not about who represents Jesus and who represents God... that's interpretting it on too high a level. like I said with like, a story about hercules. you wouldn't say hercules represents christ or whatever, you'd say oh well it's about strength or whatever the hercules thing is about...

anyway I'll butt out. I think the mere fact of mentioning it is incompatible with Catholic Theology puts it on a whole other level, as if it was even a question. anyway, I'm not sure I'll be able to get you to understand what I mean here, so again, I'm out. [/quote]
No one "represents" Jesus or God in Star Wars, but there are obviously two sides, good and evil, and in those sides, we see certain characteristics which are universally true of good and of evil.

[Aloysius]

okay, never mind then. I understand in your last post... what gets me is when you talk of the force as if it's not just a literary device that provides an entertaining platform for the battle between good and evil... say that it promotes pantheism or something.

so, yeah, don't mind me :ph34r:

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='May 31 2005, 11:21 AM'] okay, never mind then. I understand in your last post... what gets me is when you talk of the force as if it's not just a literary device that provides an entertaining platform for the battle between good and evil... say that it promotes pantheism or something.

so, yeah, don't mind me :ph34r: [/quote]
Ah, well I do believe that the idea is largely pantheistic. It's certainly a literary device, but certainly the jedi do not see it as a mere metaphor...they see it as a literal force. We should ask ourselves what that force is...correct me if I'm wrong, but the jedi see it as the "energy" that binds everything in the universe together, which is more present in some than in others. It may not be something they see as divine, but they certainly consider themselves to be a part of it. I suppose there is no reason that they couldn't believe in "the force" and that there is a God who made "the force" rather than seeing the force as a sort of deity in and of itself, but it does seem that way.

[Aloysius]

it's not supposed to be reality at all, though. there's no need for it to be a force created by God any more than in ancient greek myths we must attempt to see the gods as ultimately being created by God. the Jedi believe in it, but they also believe in the entire galaxy far far away, they live there.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='May 31 2005, 02:26 PM'] it's not supposed to be reality at all, though. there's no need for it to be a force created by God any more than in ancient greek myths we must attempt to see the gods as ultimately being created by God. the Jedi believe in it, but they also believe in the entire galaxy far far away, they live there. [/quote]
Yes, but to them, it is reality, so to understand their understanding of reality, we must step into it.