Thy Geekdom Come Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 Okay, so scrupulosity smells of elderberries. It is of course an attempt by Satan to get a person to focus on fear of hell rather than love of God, not to mention to abstain from receiving the Eucharist for fear of offending God. It's gotten to the point where I can't tell the difference between Satan and my conscience. I mean, Satan could pretend to be my conscience... It's like this: No, I didn't sin. Yes you did. No, I didn't. You need to go to Confession. I did nothing wrong! The experts on scrupulosity say not to go to Confession unless you are certain that you did something. You did do something. This whole scrupulosity thing is just an excuse because you're too prideful to admit your sins. I didn't do anything! You're just saying that. No, listen...it's not because I'm prideful, it's because I'm too hard on myself. No, it's because you're prideful. Oh, and by the way, you smell of elderberries. You do, you really do. You smell of elderberries. I have to trust in Jesus. I'm not supposed to confess something unless I know I've done something wrong. You have done something wrong. You knew you were from the start...so you just told yourself that what you were doing was okay. No, the experts on scrupulosity said that if you're not sure if something is moral or not, face the fear and do it without looking back. Well, you're looking back. You just sinned again, by disobedience. Besides, you know it's immoral. No it's not! Why don't you just go to Confession? Then you can tell the priest everything and let him decide. Because I won't know what to confess...I'm not even sure what I did. Then you admit you did something?! No! Just go to Confession...you know you want to...you need a fix. No, last time, I went to Confession twice because I was worried that I'd left something out. You did leave something out...on purpose. You're a horrible person. I did not! You knew you were leaving it out, didn't you? I wasn't extremely detailed...that would have held up the line. I told the priest enough for him to know what was going on. You purposely left stuff out. I did not! If he needed any more clarity, he could have asked. You left stuff out because you didn't want him to know how sinful and horrid you are. No, I didn't...I was afraid to confess, but I didn't want to go into the greatest detail because the priests on EWTN said that it's not necessary and I knew it just would have given my scrupulosity more power over me. You went back to Confession...that's a sin. No! Yes! Jesus is upset with you...He's going to send you to hell for this! No! He loves me! Yes, He loves you, but it's your job to come to Him in Confession. But I didn't do anything! I even talked about it with devout friends and they said I didn't! What do they know? You were probably lying to them about it anyway! I was not! You're going to Hell. I am not! I'm in the state of grace! How do you know? I have consolations and I can feel Jesus' presence! Satan can fool you into thinking that stuff...maybe he's doing it to trick you out of going to Confession! No! I did nothing wrong! Confessing false sins is lying to a confessor...it's a sin! You don't know that they're false sins. I don't know that they were sins at all. Then they could be? Theoretically. You should go to Confession just in case. *goes to Confession and doesn't go into specifics because he knows it'll make the scrupulosity more powerful, but gives enough for the priest to know what's wrong* *the priest says it's no big deal and not a sin* There, feel better now that you've given in to Jesus? Yes. Well, you won't for long...I mean...the priest didn't think it was a big deal...you know it was...therefore, you must not have made a good Confession because he couldn't have understood you properly. No! Maybe he was just in agreement with my friends that it really was nothing. Well how could he be sure...you weren't specific! How could I be? I don't even know what I allegedly did! "Allegedly"? Then you don't even think you did it and you confessed? Yes. Then you lied to a confessor! Shame! You're really damned, you know that? Anyone else deal with this much? I don't know what to do...no matter what I try, I'm convinced that I've somehow sinned. I worry that any plan of action to deal with it will just make me worry more...has so far.
Thurifer Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 Yes. It's horrible...Can I recieve Communion mom? Was it a mortal sin or was it a sin at all? Am I a mortal sinner? I'm so sinful? Or am I? It's aweful, it's a spiritual and a physical problem I think..... I go over little sins over and over again...Trying to see if they are mortal...But many times they are only temptations! Pray man...We'll overcome it! In Christ, Gary
curtins Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 i have the same problems dude- especially regaurding arousal its like ill be around a girl and she'll compliment me or something and bam it happens and I dont want it to and im not trying to get pleasure or anything and i dont will it but 5 min after i feel guilty but if i think i commit a mortal sin I really feel cut off from God where as this is just like an unsure kinda a grey area that the devil is trying to make you feel like ur cut off from God prayers and we will prevail
Cathurian Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 God bless you, Micah. Prayers. Mother Mary has you in her arms.
Catholictothecore Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 doesn't read first post, as he's very much aware of that conversation. Don't focus on sin! LET GO, and LET GOD! One act of contrition made because you love God is enough TO COMPLETELY ERASE VENIAL SIN. Which, is still most common. Even if the sin you committed was seriously wrong, if you didn't give full consent (knew before doing it that you would be sorry), it's venial. That same act is enough to restore one to the state of grace, the life of God within. But, like all near death sicknesses, your going to be weak. Peace and compassion. Ps, I've found saying "Jesus, I trust in you" very, veyr helpful.
theculturewarrior Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 When in doubt, always receive communion. That's how I overcame my scruples.
God Conquers Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 I used to struggle with that as well. I'm actually not sure how I overcame it... When a situation arises when you can't tell whether it's your conscience or Satan, call upon the Lord. "God Come To My Assistance" "Lord Make Haste To Help Me" He'll sort it out. Another thing is use Reason. If you know, by reason that it wasn't a sin, yet somehow your conscience is telling you it is, then it's not. This doesn't work for everyone, because you can then rationalize away sins... but since you're in the opposite "scrupulous mode" then it might be a good tool. Plus you're smart so it should work.
Catholictothecore Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 also, devotion to Mary doesn't hurt when facing anything.
Don John of Austria Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jun 17 2005, 09:01 PM']Okay, so scrupulosity smells of elderberries. It is of course an attempt by Satan to get a person to focus on fear of hell rather than love of God, not to mention to abstain from receiving the Eucharist for fear of offending God. It's gotten to the point where I can't tell the difference between Satan and my conscience. I mean, Satan could pretend to be my conscience... It's like this: No, I didn't sin. Yes you did. No, I didn't. You need to go to Confession. I did nothing wrong! The experts on scrupulosity say not to go to Confession unless you are certain that you did something. You did do something. This whole scrupulosity thing is just an excuse because you're too prideful to admit your sins. I didn't do anything! You're just saying that. No, listen...it's not because I'm prideful, it's because I'm too hard on myself. No, it's because you're prideful. Oh, and by the way, you smell of elderberries. You do, you really do. You smell of elderberries. I have to trust in Jesus. I'm not supposed to confess something unless I know I've done something wrong. You have done something wrong. You knew you were from the start...so you just told yourself that what you were doing was okay. No, the experts on scrupulosity said that if you're not sure if something is moral or not, face the fear and do it without looking back. Well, you're looking back. You just sinned again, by disobedience. Besides, you know it's immoral. No it's not! Why don't you just go to Confession? Then you can tell the priest everything and let him decide. Because I won't know what to confess...I'm not even sure what I did. Then you admit you did something?! No! Just go to Confession...you know you want to...you need a fix. No, last time, I went to Confession twice because I was worried that I'd left something out. You did leave something out...on purpose. You're a horrible person. I did not! You knew you were leaving it out, didn't you? I wasn't extremely detailed...that would have held up the line. I told the priest enough for him to know what was going on. You purposely left stuff out. I did not! If he needed any more clarity, he could have asked. You left stuff out because you didn't want him to know how sinful and horrid you are. No, I didn't...I was afraid to confess, but I didn't want to go into the greatest detail because the priests on EWTN said that it's not necessary and I knew it just would have given my scrupulosity more power over me. You went back to Confession...that's a sin. No! Yes! Jesus is upset with you...He's going to send you to hell for this! No! He loves me! Yes, He loves you, but it's your job to come to Him in Confession. But I didn't do anything! I even talked about it with devout friends and they said I didn't! What do they know? You were probably lying to them about it anyway! I was not! You're going to Hell. I am not! I'm in the state of grace! How do you know? I have consolations and I can feel Jesus' presence! Satan can fool you into thinking that stuff...maybe he's doing it to trick you out of going to Confession! No! I did nothing wrong! Confessing false sins is lying to a confessor...it's a sin! You don't know that they're false sins. I don't know that they were sins at all. Then they could be? Theoretically. You should go to Confession just in case. *goes to Confession and doesn't go into specifics because he knows it'll make the scrupulosity more powerful, but gives enough for the priest to know what's wrong* *the priest says it's no big deal and not a sin* There, feel better now that you've given in to Jesus? Yes. Well, you won't for long...I mean...the priest didn't think it was a big deal...you know it was...therefore, you must not have made a good Confession because he couldn't have understood you properly. No! Maybe he was just in agreement with my friends that it really was nothing. Well how could he be sure...you weren't specific! How could I be? I don't even know what I allegedly did! "Allegedly"? Then you don't even think you did it and you confessed? Yes. Then you lied to a confessor! Shame! You're really damned, you know that? Anyone else deal with this much? I don't know what to do...no matter what I try, I'm convinced that I've somehow sinned. I worry that any plan of action to deal with it will just make me worry more...has so far. [right][snapback]614935[/snapback][/right] [/quote]\ I understand your problem really I do. I just want to point this out. You should never ever say this "I am not! I'm in the state of grace!" You never KNOW that you are in a state of grace except after Baptism and after Anointing. Even after a confession it is persuptous to assume that you truly had a complete confession. That being said I commend your Holiness I can always think of SOMETHING I need to confess
Don John of Austria Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 [quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Jun 17 2005, 10:53 PM']When in doubt, always receive communion. That's how I overcame my scruples. [right][snapback]615030[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Youse I guess I was just educated differantly, I would say when in doubt do not recieve communion, better to confeess and be told you did no wrong thatn to condemn yourself by taking Our Lord in Communion with a sullied soul.
Thy Geekdom Come Posted June 18, 2005 Author Posted June 18, 2005 Don John, I've also heard that you should receive when in doubt. I know that St. Alphonsus Ligouri said to. As for the state of grace thing...lol...if I don't know that I'm in the state of grace, and "if in doubt, don't receive" is the rule, then I'd never receive again, which is itself a sin. We may not "know" that we are in the state of grace...I didn't mean it that way...but we must hold out faith and hope that we are and trust in God. That's the hard part.
Catholictothecore Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 yeah...why abandon what the few things you know to be true when your doubting other truths.
Thurifer Posted June 18, 2005 Posted June 18, 2005 [quote]Youse I guess I was just educated differantly, I would say when in doubt do not recieve communion, better to confeess and be told you did no wrong thatn to condemn yourself by taking Our Lord in Communion with a sullied soul.[/quote] I see what your saying but in order for a sin to be mortal you have to have understanding---you have to know it's mortal...If you were in doubt than you wouldn't know for sure, so it wouldn't be mortal... Right?...Because you would be lacking in understanding Mortal sin requires A grave matter Understanding Contrition In Christ, Gary
hopeful1 Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 :group: know that i understand your struggles and appreciate all the help you have given me to help me straighten out any uncertainties i may have suffered with mine.
hopeful1 Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 once i had do go to confession five minutes after my last one
Carnanc Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 yes, I've had this conversation and struggle several times. What has worked for me the most in overcoming this is steps similar to what you would do in dealing with OCD, as scrupulosity is often a religious form of that disorder. Often I would spend several hours worrying about mortal sin, knowing that to go to confession everytime would not be appropriate. What has worked the best for me is to just force the issue out of mind. If you have a doubtful matter, for me the solution was to forget about it, and in doing so the anxiety would clear and i coudl see the issue clearly without anxiety
Old_Joe Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 I always have problems focusing at Mass. Whenever I'm reflecting or meditating prayerfully and I hear someone walk in, I alsmost always turn around to see who it is. It always bugs me because I have to remind myself that I'm there to receive Christ not to see if my friends are there, which they usually are anyway. I am reminded of the gospel reading recently where Christ tells his disciples not to bring attention to themselves when they are giving alms or praying.
Don John of Austria Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Thurifer' date='Jun 18 2005, 11:25 AM']I see what your saying but in order for a sin to be mortal you have to have understanding---you have to know it's mortal...If you were in doubt than you wouldn't know for sure, so it wouldn't be mortal... Right?...Because you would be lacking in understanding Mortal sin requires A grave matter Understanding Contrition In Christ, Gary [right][snapback]615234[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Not contrition contrition is what is neeeded for forgivness not to commit a sin. I think you are thinking og consent. Understanding is ifffy you need not understand that it is a mortal sin only that it is in fact a sin and that one willingly does it and it is a grave matter. Further many Grave matters are part of the Natural Law, that Law which is written on everymans heart-- refusal to obey it is not a get out of Jail free card.
crusader1234 Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 This thread just screams 'tequila'. Just kidding. Pretty much.
photosynthesis Posted June 21, 2005 Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 18 2005, 01:19 AM']\ I understand your problem really I do. I just want to point this out. You should never ever say this "I am not! I'm in the state of grace!" You never KNOW that you are in a state of grace except after Baptism and after Anointing. Even after a confession it is persuptous to assume that you truly had a complete confession. That being said I commend your Holiness I can always think of SOMETHING I need to confess [right][snapback]615060[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I thought Jesus gave us confession so that we would know that we are forgiven. When I hear the priest say "I absolve you from your sins" I take it literally and trust that through the ministry of the Church God always forgives my sins because of what Jesus told Peter in the Bible. I used to beat myself up about forgetting to confess certain sins... I'd accuse myself and tell myself that i was so sinful that there was no way i could possibly confess every sin. but I find that it helps to keep a list of things you want to confess. That way you know it's there and you don't have to worry about it 24/7. After I leave confession I like to tear up the list.
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