Latin Mass in Phoenix

[jezic]

why don't you like the english?

[Aloysius]

the translation made by the ICEL in force right now is horrid. it takes away alot of the ritual that you wouldn't even think about. the greatest example is when we say "and also with you"

err... sounds kind of informal chit chattery... hey you, over there, yeah the guy in the priest vestments!

the actual translation of the official text of the current Missa Normativa (yes, the mass we do now in its normal state is Latin, vernacular parts are allowed to be put in and as it stands now, most put every part in vernacular and pretend that's the norm) is "and with your spirit"

it's just so much more.. spiritual. like Oik said above, it'll be more sacred english... yeah we'll have vernacular but we're at least gonna be reverent about it, ya know.

the Spanish have it right... I believe almost everyone else has it translated right... but it's just so hard to find english speakers who don't have agendas. the ICEL recognizes its past translation blunders and is currently redoing the whole thing though

[jezic]

that is cool. I don't see anything wrong with the phrase but maybe because i grew up around it.

*new thread*

Edited June 21, 2005 by jezic

[Aloysius]

trust me, when the new missal comes out and you experience it, you'll notice the difference. that doesn't sound like it would have much significance, but it really does in practice. it's hard to explain, you'll just have to see for yourself how using a sacred english increases the revenrence and changes the atmosphere.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

YAY!

He's an awesome bishop! One of Lincoln's finest.

[philothea]

Ah fooey. I had a link to a first draft of the new English translation, but it's been taken down "in order to protect the secrecy of the consultation process".

Anyway, trust me, it's gorgeous.

[Aloysius]

NO WAAAY!!!! what... I wanna see!

[MilesChristi]

Hooray for Bishop Olmsted. Great news for the people of Arizona!

I've also seen the first draft of the new English translation of the normative Mass. It's a [b]vast[/b] improvement.

[Aloysius]

[url="http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=33160"]http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=33160[/url] gives a few examples

[son_of_angels]

Really I think the solution to this is either to split the Latin Rite itself into the Roman Rite and the Tridentine Rite with separate patriarchs, canon law, etc. or to create a personal prelature wherein all of the communities, parishes, chapels, priestly fraternities, and religious orders would be under an Archbishop. This would allow some permanence and flexibility and would make growth more possible. The bishops and Archbishops who ran the prelature could establish parishes and communities independent of local bishops and could negotiate the allowance of the Tridentine Mass in diocesan parishes. In other words the system would be more orderly and systemic.
Creating a new Church sui juris also has its advantages though, in that it would yield permanence and nearly complete freedom, but I think this would be very detrimental to Catholic unity. A separate personal prelature seems much more practical AND it could control some of the more radical traditionalist communities better than the present system.

[Aloysius]

have you ever read Ecclesia Dei? I think a widespread application of the indult is the better answer. the only reason an indult shouldn't be granted to any priest is if he is known to be heretically schismatic. other than that, the tridentine indult shop should be open. a priest should be able to call up the bishop, ask if he can do tridentine mass, and be allowed to do it.

the present system works well, it just needs more widespread application.

and the FSSP rock my socks off.