Don John of Austria Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Jun 22 2005, 03:01 PM']How many people did St. Pius X, the great enemy of modernism, lay down an iron fist on and excommunicate? The Popes rarely exercise an "iron fist". They exercise themselves through their witness and their teachings, and expect local Bishops to do their jobs. [right][snapback]619472[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Thats because St. Pius X was a softy Bl. Pius IX excommunicated plenty. I think we need a lot more formal excommunications, the Chuirch should buy air time and do it publicly on National television, the whole ancienct rite and name people by name. That would make people understand how serious we take this evil heretical garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 What is "plenty"? Documentation, please. Let's say "plenty" is 25. John Paul II excommunicating 25 people isn't going to do anything, except possibly cause a schism in America. And latae sentiae excommunication is already layed out in Canon Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 I think that when we couple [url="http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=34283&eng=y"]this story[/url] about Vatican IIwith [url="http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=32905&eng=y"]this story[/url] about Archbishop Marini, we are getting an idea as to what Pope Benedict is going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Eremite' date='Jun 22 2005, 03:22 PM']What is "plenty". Documentation, please. Let's say "plenty" is 25. John Paul II excommunicating 25 people isn't going to do anything, except possibly cause a schism in America. And latae sentiae excommunication is already layed out in Canon Law. [right][snapback]619492[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well JPII is dead so I don't think he is going to be excommunicating anyone, and Pius the IX excommunicated more than 25 people, heck a bishop in Nebraska about 10 years back excommunicated several hundred, published there names in the paper and everything, it helped him stomp out heresy in his diocese quite nicely-- He blanket excommunicated everyone who was aa member of certian organizations published the names of those organizations and the leaders of them by name. It was things like Catholics for a free choice excetera. So I think you are not quite acurate here. P.S. I'm not sure a schism in america isn't a forgone conclusion it is more a question of when and how many go each way than if. Edited June 22, 2005 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Didn't Pius X declare that anyone teaching contrary to the encyclical Pascendi to be excommunicate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 1) John Paul II published the 1983 Code of Canon Law. Thus, he is the cause of any and all latae sentiae excommunications. So, modestly estimated, he is the cause of thousands of excommunications. 2) "Blanket" excommunications (I assume it's Bruskewitz) are no different than what John Paul II already did in Canon Law. We are speaking of direct, personal excommunications, which have always been rare. 2) I'll need documentation for the Pius IX claim. 3) The Bishop of Rome is the apostle of unity in the Church. Schism is always harder to heal than heresy. The goal is not to drive people away from the Church, but to advance the authentic mission of the Church. The Pope has no chance of reaching a schismatic Church in America. He has every chance of reaching individual Catholics who have not separated themselves from the Church, but who are not living up to its call. St. Paul left discipline, and peer pressure, to the local Church ("if anyone does not obey my letter, mark him and have nothing to do with him"). He could have excommunicated every sinful Corinthian personally, but he only did so for a select few (eg, Alexander). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 the spirit of Vii has truly been a tumor in the Church in America... many people continue to cite this phrase and use it as a battlecry against people who hold to the "orthodox and catholic" faith.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesChristi Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Jun 22 2005, 07:36 PM']the spirit of Vii has truly been a tumor in the Church in America... many people continue to cite this phrase and use it as a battlecry against people who hold to the "orthodox and catholic" faith.... [right][snapback]619820[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yep. By "spirit of Vatican II" they really mean "what the council would have said if [i]I[/i] were pope" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 22 2005, 03:21 PM']Thats because St. Pius X was a softy Bl. Pius IX excommunicated plenty. I think we need a lot more formal excommunications, the Chuirch should buy air time and do it publicly on National television, the whole ancienct rite and name people by name. That would make people understand how serious we take this evil heretical garbage. [right][snapback]619491[/snapback][/right] [/quote] hahaha. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted July 8, 2005 Author Share Posted July 8, 2005 bump.....the story is still to be told... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote]Where was our iron-fisted pope when the Americans were being stupid?[/quote] Chatting with Buddists and Hindus perhaps. If you think His Holiness Pope John Paul II was iron fisted you really nead to study history some. He was about as iron fisted as my four year old. Holy? yes. Very. IUron Fisted? Hell no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 Ok, name an iron fisted pope in the 20th century then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateri05 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 what if the bishops AREN'T doing their job? i'm not asking for 50's style heretic hearings/excommunications or anything but please, i'm begging Papa Ben, do ANYTHING about some of our american bishop/cardinals. cuz without a good shepherd knockin some of the crazy heresy sheep on their bums with his staff of Truth, people think they can do whatever they want. I agree that its the bishops' job, hence why the Pope appoints them but... yea. and please don't think i'm challengin the late Holy Father's decisions on some of his appointments, because obviously the Vicar of Christ would have a larger clue than myself. it just gets disheartening being in a diocese where the bishop won't DO anything and in fact, could be causing some of the concerns. i mean my cardinal won't even let Regnum Christi INTO the diocese, what does that tell you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Nono Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 JMJ 7/10 - Fifteenth Sunday [quote name='Cam42' date='Jul 9 2005, 07:36 AM']Ok, name an iron fisted pope in the 20th century then. [right][snapback]637109[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I've read biographies of all the Popes since Pius IX...I don't know if any of them can be described as "iron-fisted" in the style of Boniface VIII, for instance. Benedict XV was a little retentive about how things ran, but he was renown for his merciful deeds, especially for the poor of Europe in the aftermath of World War I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Nono Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 JMJ 7/10 - Fifteenth Sunday I have a feeling that the REAL untold story of Vatican II, sadly enough, might be able to be found here... [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/"]Documents of the Second Vatican Council[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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