gay marriages

[Socrates]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Sep 18 2005, 03:50 PM']Okay, humor me and hypothetically speaking if the mormons said that what would you think? And you mention monogomous for the heteros but not the homos..

Can someone else answer that ?... or just go to my poll.
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Marriage is between a man and a woman. While the Mormans are wrong in allowing multiple wives, even they have a better understanding of marriage than you and the "gay rights" crowd. Marriage has always been about men and women being united for the purpose of having and raising children.
"Gay marriage" has nothing to do with that. It's two men or two women commiting sodomy with one another. This has nothing to do with the meaning of marriage as it was understood for thousands of years.

And we Catholics believe the Catholic Church is right about marriage and the Mormons are wrong (and the "gay rights" people are even more wrong. End of story.

If you're looking for a relativistic, "morality is determined by majority vote" answer, you've come to the wrong forum.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Sep 18 2005, 03:24 PM']Homosexual supporters equate disagreement with intolerance frequently.  It gets to the point where it is no longer a question of us tolerated them, but of them being intolerant of us; hence Christians heading into the closet vacated by the homosexuals to which I much admit contains some truth.
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I very much agree with this, and I think the concept goes beyond homosexual supporters. Christianity is not cool anymore.

I think what homosexual couples should be requesting is not "gay marriage", but more comprehensive civil unions. I don't condone homosexual behavior at all, but using our government's stance on equality, there should be greater rights/stipulations included with civil unions. Instead, people are turning the issue into more than it needs to be by bastardizing a well-formed, long established institution (regardless of religion).

[Semalsia]

I suppose it is imposing our values on others. But then again, so is making murder illegal too to those who think killing others should be allowed. It's a question of in what kind of society you want to live. Whether it is imposing values on others doesn't really matter. Both sides know they are right.

And the catholic idea of marriage is dead already. There is nothing gay marriage can do to it that hasn't already been done by straight marriage. It's time you leave it with dignity and move on.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Sep 19 2005, 04:45 PM']It's a question of in what kind of society you want to live. Whether it is imposing values on others doesn't really matter. [/quote]
Exactly right - and our society does not allow murder. Love it or leave it.
[quote name='Semalsia' date='Sep 19 2005, 04:45 PM']And the catholic idea of marriage is dead already. There is nothing gay marriage can do to it that hasn't already been done by straight marriage. It's time you leave it with dignity and move on.
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Heh, sounds like we're talking about Michael Jordan here. The idea of a heterosexual, monogomous, faithfully unbroken union for life is hardly dead. Rather, some people have reduced themselves to accepting that their marital vows are really nothing more than some lies uttered to pass a societal milestone, have a fancy party, and boink to their heart's content without having to embassingly explain their common address at a family reunion. If not that then they are merely ripping off the name hoping it will lend their relationship some sort of validity in the minds of whom marriage survives as some semblance of it's original self (that would be our society). Relationships, marital or otherwise, have become yet one more aspect of our life compromised for the sake of convenience and ease of use - no different than the throw-away Glad tupperware that's filling our landfills. Am I missing some profound reality that refutes this analysis?

Move on from marriage, indeed. How about people not bother degrading it into a travesty if they can't live up to the institution that it is? How about they just call it something more apropos like "playing house" or "shacking up"? Instead of husband or wife, let it be "LTR partner" or some such that isn't a rip-off. Don't try to be part of the club if you're not in and deep down don't really even want to be in the club.That would be leaving marriage with dignity. Again, love it or leave it.

Again, am I missing something here?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Sep 19 2005, 04:45 PM']I suppose it is imposing our values on others. But then again, so is making murder illegal too to those who think killing others should be allowed. It's a question of in what kind of society you want to live. Whether it is imposing values on others doesn't really matter. Both sides know they are right.

And the catholic idea of marriage is dead already. There is nothing gay marriage can do to it that hasn't already been done by straight marriage. It's time you leave it with dignity and move on.
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We'll keep fighting for what is right, whatever you and others say.
It is cowardice to declare defeat and walk away from moral battles just because evil is accepted by much of society.

All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

[hierochloe]

Monsignor: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
Murphy: Aye.

[StatingTheObvious]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Jul 2 2005, 12:43 PM']I remember a lot of you (esp ironmonk) saying that allowing gay marriages is imposing our morals on you who do not accept gay marriages. I know a key point that would explain how you are being imposed on, but no one has mentioned it explicitly that I have seen. Can you explain how you are being imposed on?
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[/quote] All societies make rules and judgements of what they want to accept and not accept. Accepting everything is anarchy. If I want to raise my kids and live my life where marriage is between 2 people of different sexes, then I live with other people that agree. Those who disagree can live elsewhere. There isn't a dominant gay community in Daytona Beach like there is in Key West. There isn't enough gays to accomplish that. It's as simple as the premise "Birds of a feather, flock together."

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='Chris of Zewe' date='Sep 18 2005, 08:43 AM']Not going to read the gigantic wall of text before me, because I really don't [i]care[/i] about the intolerant Catholic beliefs on the matter, but I'd just like to point out that marriage is about [b]love[/b], and you fall in [b]love[/b] with the person, not their gender.

On that subject... YOU CAN'T HUG YOUR CHILDREN WITH NUCLEAR ARMS!

I really hope at least one of you got that...
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/feeds troll

i dont even have to be religious to squash this.

if marraige is about love for the other person, do you imply that gay people can only love eachother while married? ill answer for you and say "no". so if they have all that love outside of marraige why get married if its only about love for eachother?

(Certainly marriage isnt about the abiltiy to get goverment gifts like visitation rights. Being able to see a sick person you care about is a freedom all people are given government or not. besides, marraige has been around a helluva lot longer than this goverment.)

so what, again, is the reason for marraige?

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Chris of Zewe' date='Sep 18 2005, 08:43 AM']Not going to read the gigantic wall of text before me, because I really don't [i]care[/i] about the intolerant Catholic beliefs on the matter, but I'd just like to point out that marriage is about [b]love[/b], and you fall in [b]love[/b] with the person, not their gender.

On that subject... YOU CAN'T HUG YOUR CHILDREN WITH NUCLEAR ARMS!

I really hope at least one of you got that...
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Chris, I bet we all got that, but, I also bet none of us agree with you. And someone can love someone, but, when you marry you choose to love them I think. Because you can stop loving them and just get fed up with them (which is why people get divorced) but the marriege is true when you choose to live with the person in unity and a will to accomplish Gods will for the whole family.

Anyways that has nothing to do with this, so, I'll shut up now. But if God wanted us to marry the same gender, dont you think the couple would be able to have a child, which you cannot do with the same gender!! It makes sense to me!!!

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Sirklawd' date='Sep 20 2005, 02:36 PM']/feeds troll

i dont even have to be religious to squash this.

if marraige is about love for the other person, do you imply that gay people can only love eachother while married? ill answer for you and say "no". so if they have all that love outside of marraige why get married if its only about love for eachother? 

(Certainly marriage isnt about the abiltiy to get goverment gifts like visitation rights. Being able to see a sick person you care about is a freedom all people are given government or not. besides, marraige has been around a helluva lot longer than this goverment.)

so what, again, is the reason for marraige?
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Ehem...I believe the sign said "Don't feed the trolls"

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Sirklawd' date='Sep 20 2005, 01:36 PM']/feeds troll

i dont even have to be religious to squash this.

if marraige is about love for the other person, do you imply that gay people can only love eachother while married? ill answer for you and say "no". so if they have all that love outside of marraige why get married if its only about love for eachother? 

(Certainly marriage isnt about the abiltiy to get goverment gifts like visitation rights. Being able to see a sick person you care about is a freedom all people are given government or not. besides, marraige has been around a helluva lot longer than this goverment.)

so what, again, is the reason for marraige?
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To accomplish Gods will as two in this lifetime, right? And to be able to help one another through difficulties.

[Sirklawd]

oh i know what marraige is for. i was sorta seeing if he wanted to restate his stance..


and im sorry for feeding the troll
my urge to pwn stupidity is so large. i must learn patience.

[infinitelord1]

allowing gay marriages is a terrible thing. I think the issue of homosexuality is a grave sin that is over looked by today's society. It causes people to not believe in god (especially the ones who live that way). Allowing gay marriages only tells people that homosexuality is OK. What is this world coming to?

[infinitelord1]

i dont think all gay people are going to hell. However, i dont think they will make it to heaven. To live your life fully homosexual would be living by the creature and not by the creator. Gay activists like to use the fact that animals exhibit homosexual traits. This is a terrible arguement for a number of reasons. It looks past the fact that just because animals do it doesnt mean that it is morally OK for human beings to do it. Lets also not forget that animals are not subject to morallity. They simply act upon feelings. Animals do sexual things simply out of pleasure. The fact that animals exhibit homosexual behaviors doesnt say that they were born that way too.

[infinitelord1]

I dont believe they will ever be able to link a gene to behavior or feelings. The only thing were i could see someone born that way is of a genetic flaw. We are aware of people being born hermaphrodite. Abnormalities, i believe, are caused by mans destruction of god's creation......i.e. pollution, puttiing things into ones body that are harmful. Its possible that a man could be born with a females brain.......but i dont believe its possible. I think that people being born homosexual is much more in the grey than the theory of evolution.

[Didacus]

All of what this gay marriage thing is? Its just a continuation of a battle of idealogies which has been progressing for the last two centuries.

[Ora et Labora]

I know you know what it is! Lol! Sorry, I was kinda just saying what I thought and what you thought of how I said it...

[Proud2BCatholic139]

As stated in the CCC, (I forgot which number)

But homosexuality is a calling from God to live a chaste life.

Don't dislike the person, dislike the sin.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Proud2BCatholic139' date='Sep 22 2005, 12:35 PM']As stated in the CCC, (I forgot which number)

But homosexuality is a calling from God to live a chaste life.

Don't dislike the person, dislike the sin.
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I don't think the CCC states it quite like that - it says homosexuals are called to chastity (meaning if they are unbale to overcome their disordered feelings, they must remain chaste, rather than commit homosexual sins). In fact, ALL Christians are called to live a chaste life. (Chastity does not necessarily mean celibacy - it means purity from sexual sin.)

Referring to homosexuality as a "calling from God" is misleading, as it makes this disorder sound like a postive good. The Catechism also calls homosexual attraction "intrinsically disordered."

Something intrinsically disordered is not a calling from God. God can bring good out of good, and call people to a celibate life, but the homosexual disorder must not be confused with the calling itself.

This kind of confusion can cause problems, as in when a young man beleives because he is "gay," this means he is called to the priesthood. Such is not the case, as the Church is making known.

(ps. - It's "hate the sin, not the sinner." We are told to love our enemy, but love is not the same as "liking" him. We don't have to like anybody, though we must love them.)

Edited September 23, 2005 by Socrates

[Semalsia]

[quote]hate the sin, not the sinner[/quote]

Hate is poison. It's a slow death of the mind, no matter what it is that you hate.