avemaria40 Posted July 3, 2005 Posted July 3, 2005 No, b/c not everyone is a Christian or even believe in God, this country is wonderful in the sense that we have freedom of religion:) Heck, if we didn't idk if i would have converted to Catholicism. I have a bunch of friends who are Jewish, Muslim, atheist, agnostic, etc. and if we forced them all to go to church, idk if they would even be interested b/c no one likes to be forced to do anything. Just my two cents
Q the Ninja Posted July 3, 2005 Posted July 3, 2005 Attending Mass each week is a requirement of the Divine Law. Human laws can only encompass the Natural Law, which would not include attending Mass every week. Therefore, it cannot be required justly by and human law.
Twentie Fow Posted July 3, 2005 Posted July 3, 2005 [quote]Attending Mass each week is a requirement of the Divine Law. Human laws can only encompass the Natural Law, which would not include attending Mass every week. Therefore, it cannot be required justly by and human law. [/quote] Agreed.
Cam42 Posted July 4, 2005 Posted July 4, 2005 It is already. Here is the [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM"]Code of Canon Law[/url].
Guest JeffCR07 Posted July 4, 2005 Posted July 4, 2005 No, requiring all people to go to Mass would result in a huge number of people committing mortal sin (receiving the Body and Blood of Christ when they are not properly disposed). Moreover, forcing people who do not believe the Catholic faith to attend Mass would do more harm that it would good in terms of bringing people to the faith. When a person reaches the age of reason, they must make a [i]voluntary[/i] choice to be catholic and to attend the Divine Liturgy. Furthermore, it seems that many people forget that the Mass is a sacred and Divine thing. It is not meant for the unbelievers, but for the believers. Catechumens are ushered out of Mass after the Liturgy of the Word for a reason - the Eucharist is too precious, too holy, and too communal and unitive in nature to make open to everyone on a regular basis. Participating in the Liturgy of the Eucharist implies a unity of belief. Too force unbelievers to participate would betray this key feature of the Blessed Sacrament.
Cam42 Posted July 4, 2005 Posted July 4, 2005 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jul 4 2005, 07:05 PM']No, requiring all people to go to Mass would result in a huge number of people committing mortal sin (receiving the Body and Blood of Christ when they are not properly disposed). Moreover, forcing people who do not believe the Catholic faith to attend Mass would do more harm that it would good in terms of bringing people to the faith. When a person reaches the age of reason, they must make a [i]voluntary[/i] choice to be catholic and to attend the Divine Liturgy. Furthermore, it seems that many people forget that the Mass is a sacred and Divine thing. It is not meant for the unbelievers, but for the believers. Catechumens are ushered out of Mass after the Liturgy of the Word for a reason - the Eucharist is too precious, too holy, and too communal and unitive in nature to make open to everyone on a regular basis. Participating in the Liturgy of the Eucharist implies a unity of belief. Too force unbelievers to participate would betray this key feature of the Blessed Sacrament. [right][snapback]631692[/snapback][/right] [/quote] So you're saying that being bound to go to Mass is a bad thing. Because Canon Law says that we have to go. That is the Sunday obligation.
Guest JeffCR07 Posted July 4, 2005 Posted July 4, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Jul 4 2005, 06:08 PM']So you're saying that being bound to go to Mass is a bad thing. Because Canon Law says that we have to go. That is the Sunday obligation. [right][snapback]631696[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Hahaha, nope, reread what I wrote. I never said that [i]Catholics[/i] should not be obligated by law to go to Mass - they are, Canon Law says so, and is binding on all catholics. What I said was that [i]non-catholics[/i] being forced to go to Mass is a bad thing.
infinitelord1 Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 no it is against free will........this also brings me to the thought about baptism as a baby. I dont know what to think about it.
Cam42 Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jul 4 2005, 07:13 PM']Hahaha, nope, reread what I wrote. I never said that [i]Catholics[/i] should not be obligated by law to go to Mass - they are, Canon Law says so, and is binding on all catholics. What I said was that [i]non-catholics[/i] being forced to go to Mass is a bad thing. [right][snapback]631700[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You said: [quote]No, requiring all people to go to Mass would result in a huge number of people committing mortal sin (receiving the Body and Blood of Christ when they are not properly disposed).[/quote] That is what I was referring to. And that is imporoper theology. Even those in a state of mortal sin are bound to go to Mass. They just can't recieve the Blessed Sacrament. Incidentally, there is no requirement to receive Holy Communion, except for once a year.
Guest JeffCR07 Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 Hahaha, not improper theology, just improper phrasing. The intention of that sentence, which I apologize for not making explicitly clear, was that a law requiring [i]all[/i] people to go to mass would almost certainly result in the receiving of the Blessed Sacrament by those who do not hold the Catholic Faith. This is a terrible sacrilege, and should be avoided wherever prudent. I had thought that this would make sense, given the fact that the discussion was focusing on forcing non-catholics to attend the Mass, and no one had yet turned the discussion to concern catholic faithful in states of mortal sin. However, I can see that I should have been more specific in my phrasing, and I will make sure to do so in the future. Your Brother In Christ, Jeff
Cam42 Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 The poll is clear in what it asked. [quote]Should Sunday church attendence every week be required by law?[/quote] I responded in a perfectly clear manner. [quote]It is already. Here is the Code of Canon Law. [/quote] As a matter of Church law, I am perfectly correct. Or am I not?
curtins Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 forcing people to go to Mass would do more harm than good. It would be very hard to enforce and i dont think all the churches could accomidate all the people and people gotta come to God on their own not be forced to.
Cam42 Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 [quote name='curtins' date='Jul 4 2005, 11:00 PM']forcing people to go to Mass would do more harm than good. It would be very hard to enforce and i dont think all the churches could accomidate all the people and people gotta come to God on their own not be forced to. [right][snapback]631831[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The churches would handle it and while it would be hard to enforce, so is any law. But it is the law nevertheless. And we find the authentic spirit of the law in the letter of the law. Canon Law says that we must attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day of obligation. We are obliged. It is our duty to receive Holy Communion once a year, at least. Frequent reception is laudable. That is the law. We are to obey. What are we to make of those who don't live by the law? Let's not force them? I disagree. They need to be told and catechized. They need to know that Canon Law is binding on Catholics in a religous sense. It is not ceremonial, it is real and it is binding on Catholics.
Guest JeffCR07 Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Jul 4 2005, 09:26 PM']The poll is clear in what it asked. I responded in a perfectly clear manner. As a matter of Church law, I am perfectly correct. Or am I not? [right][snapback]631807[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Cam, it seems that your are trying to pick apart my posts, or trying to pick a fight with me. I have never said that your post was incorrect, in fact, I agreed with the point you made entire. When you asked me to clarify a sentence in my post, I did so. Mandating that non-catholics attend Mass is not a good idea, and the tradition of the Church agrees: in the east non-catholics and catechumens were not allowed to be in the church during the liturgy of the eucharist. My position, and all of my comments, have been entirely orthodox. What more do you want from me? In Christ, Jeff
Guest JeffCR07 Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Jul 4 2005, 10:33 PM']The churches would handle it and while it would be hard to enforce, so is any law. But it is the law nevertheless. And we find the authentic spirit of the law in the letter of the law. Canon Law says that we must attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day of obligation. We are obliged. It is our duty to receive Holy Communion once a year, at least. Frequent reception is laudable. That is the law. We are to obey. What are we to make of those who don't live by the law? Let's not force them? I disagree. They need to be told and catechized. They need to know that Canon Law is binding on Catholics in a religous sense. It is not ceremonial, it is real and it is binding on Catholics. [right][snapback]631879[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Cam, again, both curtins and I are speaking of forcing [i]non catholics[/i] to go to Mass. No one is arguing with you that catholics are obligated to go to Mass. That is clear in the Code of Canon Law. The question is whether or not [i]all[/i] people, catholic and non-catholic, should be forced to go to Mass. Our response is a definitive "no"
Cam42 Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 [quote]The question is whether or not all people, catholic and non-catholic, should be forced to go to Mass.[/quote] No it isn't. Read the question again. The question is: [quote]Should Sunday church attendence every week be required by law?[/quote] The answer to that question is it already is!!!!! Where does it say anything about [i]all people[/i] or non-Catholics? That is my point. Sunday church attendance is required by law. Canon law. Dairy may have intended something else, but by her wording, the answer is: "It already is required by law."
Guest JeffCR07 Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 Cam, you are a smart guy, you know that Dairy intended for the question to concern broad governmental legislation which would make Mass attendence obligatory for all people, including non-catholics, given the fact that her last two or three posts have concerned governmental legislation and the Natural Law Why pick apart her question with semantics? No one is arguing about Canon Law, so what do you gain by making a point that no one is contesting when the intention of the post was clearly something different?
scardella Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 Um, are we talking about civil law or canon (Church) law?
Guest JeffCR07 Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 [quote name='scardella' date='Jul 5 2005, 10:16 AM']Um, are we talking about civil law or canon (Church) law? [right][snapback]632106[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The question was intended to ask about civil law.
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