Role Playing Games

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jul 15 2005, 01:03 AM']And people are concerned that there is too much of a magical influence from the Harry Potter series?

This is much more dangerous.....I mean seriously, in an RPG, such as D&D, one can be a wizard, a god's honest wizard....one can cast spells and one can dress up as a wizard.....oh....this is all fantasy????

Silly me.  A little scary don'tcha think??????  Not to mention realllly dorky.
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umm... let's see... in D&D one does not "become" a wizard or "be" a wizard, one [b][i]pretends[/i][/b] to be a wizard. People dress up like Harry Potter all the time.

Are there God honest wizards? (Pssst... It's a trick question 'cause most real "wizards" believe there's more than one god and they probably are beholden to a "goddess" anyway...)

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jul 15 2005, 01:03 AM']And people are concerned that there is too much of a magical influence from the Harry Potter series?

This is much more dangerous.....I mean seriously, in an RPG, such as D&D, one can be a wizard, a god's honest wizard....one can cast spells and one can dress up as a wizard.....oh....this is all fantasy????

Silly me.  A little scary don'tcha think??????  Not to mention realllly dorky.
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Well I've never known anyone to dress up like a Wizard, excepting of course the LOTR opening. See I would agree with you if you had say 3 year olds being encouraged to play D&D you know like they are encouraged to play with Harry Potter toys and watch Harry Potter movies and the first thing shoved in there face when they expressed an intrest in reading at the Library was a D&D book, but it's not.( for the record I would oppose the D&D cartoon if it where on now as well, dispite the Fact that it was really really dumb) No while as you say D&D is dorky ( which is the world small minds usually use to adress those things that more intellectually gifted people enjoy.) Harry Potter is Cool, and while the spell in D&D is a series of mechanical variables from which a in game effect takes place, Harry Potter spells out the nature of neopagan Magic or should I say Magick. And of Course there is a very serious differance in that D&D is all about what you bring to the Game, it is active, it requires the imagination to create the story and to participate in it, Harry Potter ( or any book) brings with it it's own agenda on that is imputed into the Reader. Harry Potter's agenda is a neo-pagan one. Of course There is the biggest problem with your comparasion which is the one which I keep coming back to Harry potter is set in the Real world and is set in a Real time( now), and engages in Quasi-real witchcraft. D&D like LOTR ( which it was originally modeled after) normally takes place in a completly unreal place with alien gods and powers, it has no bearing on the real world.



Just as an aside I will show you what a "spell in D&D looks like.
[quote]Magic Missile
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
A missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and strikes its target, dealing 1d4+1 points of force damage.
The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat or has less than total cover or total concealment. Specific parts of a creature can’t be singled out. Inanimate objects are not damaged by the spell.
For every two caster levels beyond 1st, you gain an additional missile—two at 3rd level, three at 5th, four at 7th, and the maximum of five missiles at 9th level or higher. If you shoot multiple missiles, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you check for spell resistance or roll damage.[/quote]

Real occult isn't it.

I think the differances have been well spelled out.

[scardella]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jul 14 2005, 10:46 PM']Yup your absolutly right D&D can have all sorts of moral Choices in it, ...
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The question really seems to boil down to something like:

[b]How do the moral choices I make in a game affect my moral character outside of the game?[/b]

In my experience, I've seen that after playing violent video games, I tend to act out a little more, or at least it facilitates more violent thought. I've read many a comment from a gamer where, after playing a first-person shooter, would look around and pick out sniper spots, etc. I've also heard from a friend that after a semester of particularly intense Photoshop work, she'd mentally rearrange the world around her, color correct it, etc. Is this sort of thing the same after playing RPG's? If your character was a priest of the god Oobleck and he could make green goop come from the sky, would that influence your spiritual life outside the game?

[i]You get a bonus +3 to hit if you can guess the Oobleck reference[/i]

Edited July 15, 2005 by scardella

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jul 15 2005, 01:56 AM']Well I've never known anyone to dress up like a Wizard, excepting of course the LOTR opening.  See I would agree with you if you had say 3 year olds being encouraged to play D&D you know like they are encouraged to play with Harry Potter toys and watch Harry Potter movies and the first thing shoved in there face when they expressed an intrest in reading at the Library was a D&D book, but it's not.( for the record I would oppose the D&D cartoon  if it where on now as well, dispite the Fact that it was really really dumb)  No while as you say D&D is dorky ( which is the world small minds usually use to adress those things that more intellectually gifted people enjoy.) Harry Potter is Cool, and while the spell in D&D is a series of mechanical variables from which a in game effect takes place, Harry Potter spells out the nature of neopagan Magic or should I say Magick.  And of Course there is a very serious differance in that D&D is all about what you bring to the Game, it is active, it requires the imagination to create the story and to participate in it, Harry Potter ( or any book) brings with it it's own agenda on that is imputed into the Reader. Harry Potter's agenda is a neo-pagan one. Of course  There is the biggest problem  with your comparasion which is the one which I keep coming back to Harry potter is set in the Real world and is set in a Real time( now), and engages in Quasi-real witchcraft.  D&D  like LOTR ( which it was originally modeled after) normally takes place in a completly unreal place with alien gods and powers, it has no bearing on the real world.
Just as an aside I will show you what a "spell in D&D looks like.
Real occult isn't it.

I think the differances have been well spelled out.
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is he talking about diablo II? Great game.

[philothea]

[quote name='scardella' date='Jul 15 2005, 09:03 AM']The question really seems to boil down to something like:

[b]How do the moral choices I make in a game affect my moral character outside of the game?[/b]

In my experience, I've seen that after playing violent video games, I tend to act out a little more, or at least it facilitates more violent thought.  I've read many a comment from a gamer where, after playing a first-person shooter, would look around and pick out sniper spots, etc.  I've also heard from a friend that after a semester of particularly intense Photoshop work, she'd mentally rearrange the world around her, color correct it, etc.  Is this sort of thing the same after playing RPG's?  If your character was a priest of the god Oobleck and he could make green goop come from the sky, would that influence your spiritual life outside the game?

[i]You get a bonus +3 to hit if you can guess the Oobleck reference[/i]
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(Dr. Seuss of course.)

Your question seems apt. Unfortunately, many people simply guess whether there will be an effect, or extrapolate their own experience to other people. Reactions to "violent" games certainly vary with age. And some effects are subtle. Pen-and-paper RPGs are, I think, unlikely to cause complete-immersion problems, because it's hard to get a bunch of real people who can play all day, every day, for many days. This isn't too hard to do with a computer.

I know several stressed-out adult men who have, through the use of video games, gotten out aggression that might otherwise have been inflicted on real people. There are not many safe outlets for normal male agression in a peaceful society.

A few years ago, a study found that the average age of gamers was 38.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jul 15 2005, 02:56 AM']Well I've never known anyone to dress up like a Wizard, excepting of course the LOTR opening.  See I would agree with you if you had say 3 year olds being encouraged to play D&D you know like they are encouraged to play with Harry Potter toys and watch Harry Potter movies and the first thing shoved in there face when they expressed an intrest in reading at the Library was a D&D book, but it's not.( for the record I would oppose the D&D cartoon  if it where on now as well, dispite the Fact that it was really really dumb)  No while as you say D&D is dorky ( which is the world small minds usually use to adress those things that more intellectually gifted people enjoy.) Harry Potter is Cool, and while the spell in D&D is a series of mechanical variables from which a in game effect takes place, Harry Potter spells out the nature of neopagan Magic or should I say Magick.  And of Course there is a very serious differance in that D&D is all about what you bring to the Game, it is active, it requires the imagination to create the story and to participate in it, Harry Potter ( or any book) brings with it it's own agenda on that is imputed into the Reader. Harry Potter's agenda is a neo-pagan one. Of course  There is the biggest problem  with your comparasion which is the one which I keep coming back to Harry potter is set in the Real world and is set in a Real time( now), and engages in Quasi-real witchcraft.  D&D  like LOTR ( which it was originally modeled after) normally takes place in a completly unreal place with alien gods and powers, it has no bearing on the real world.
Just as an aside I will show you what a "spell in D&D looks like.
Real occult isn't it.

I think the differances have been well spelled out.
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So, I have a small mind. I never do anything creative, like playing golf or running a multi-million dollar company, or studying the Church, or reading copiously amounts of literature. D&D brings out all the beautiful people, I forgot. And as far as getting wrapped up in it, I know many who will forego just about anything constituting a life, in order to play.

The comparison to Harry Potter is this.....it is fantasy. It is not intended to be real. D&D is fantasy, it is not intended to be real.

Hmmmmm......[url="http://www.ddo.com/"]the big scary skeleton[/url] that wants to chop me to pieces really promotes Christian thought.

And [url="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20050630a"]this[/url] demonstrates nothing about the "reality" of what people become obsessed with. Where can I get a tail like his? (sic)

Very convincing defense, not so much......still dorky, still, in my opinion, more dangerous than Harry Potter.

[philothea]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jul 15 2005, 08:58 PM']The comparison to Harry Potter is this.....it is fantasy.  It is not intended to be real.  D&D is fantasy, it is not intended to be real.

Hmmmmm......[url="http://www.ddo.com/"]the big scary skeleton[/url] that wants to chop me to pieces really promotes Christian thought.

And [url="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20050630a"]this[/url] demonstrates nothing about the "reality" of what people become obsessed with.  Where can I get a tail like his?  (sic)

Very convincing defense, not so much......still dorky, still, in my opinion, more dangerous than Harry Potter.
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Not that anyone is paying attention to me, but as someone who writes fantasy novels, I have put a [i]lot[/i] of thought into this! One more try.

First, you're mixing up two issues here, obsession, and occult influence. Obsession is a red herring -- people can be obsessed with anything interesting: games, movies, books, stamp collecting, bird watching, phatmass, etc.

So, occult influence. This should be obvious, but I'll state it anyway to keep things clear. [b]No one who has any serious religious conviction is going to be influenced away from it by a book or a game. It's the people who are either too young to know better, or don't have any religion that are endangered.[/b] No one here at phatmass is risking harm by reading Harry Potter, or by playing D&D.

But are these things dangerous to some people? Maybe. Many of you have been Catholic, or at least Christian, all your lives, so you have no understanding of what it's like to be entirely unformed spiritually except by the culture around you. People hunger for God, and if they don't know Him, they keep looking for something to fulfill them, for something to make sense of their lives and heal their pain. It isn't hard to be led astray.

D&D, for all its "spellcasting" doesn't resemble religion or spirituality at all. If you're playing with the wrong people, sure, you might be influenced badly, but that has nothing to do with the game. As hard as I try, I cannot see a danger in that set of rules and that world. It's too contrived to be especially compelling.

Books though...

In fantasy the author makes up the whole world, including the metaphysics, the morals, and the laws of nature. Writing is only half the work of storytelling (perhaps less than half). As the reader, you reconstruct that world in your mind, and bring the characters you read about to life. In the process of reading, people put themselves into that world -- a world which may have rules entirely contrary to the ways of God.

A huge part of writing fantasy is building the metaphysics. Who are the gods? What are the morals of the world? What does magic do, and how is it controlled? How did these people and this place come to be?

Please belive me when I tell you that many, if not most, writers in the science fiction and fantasy genres are hostile to Christianity. I went browsing through My LiveJournal "friends" and their "friends" -- all of us SF/F writers -- and I looked through their interests lists before coming to respond here. It seemed like everyone was pagan and/or LGBT. The worlds, gods, morals, and mysticism these people write will not inspire unformed readers to turn toward God.

Is Harry Potter a book where the mysticism of the world is antithetical to Christianity? I don't know; I haven't read them. It's not a trivial question. Just because it's harmless to devout adult Catholics, doesn't mean it can't be very harmful indeed to the ignorant.

The possible danger is not some trivial connection like: fictional magic -> wanting to be a wizard -> trying to cast real spells and becoming a pagan. It's the overall moral sense behind the story that matters.

I try to be careful what I write.

[kaidoh]

its one of the main games i play now and days