The Saints

[Jake Huether]

I noticed that one of the things many non-Catholics just can't seem to understand is how Saints can hear us when we pray to them.

There are a few things that need to be brought to attention:

1.) When we die, we lose our bodies. Which means we can't "hear" physically. So, no, Saints don't hear us like we hear eachother now. But as members of the Body of Christ, indeed we do hear eachother spiritually, even while on earth. I can't tell you how many times I've heard Christians (Catholic and non-Catholic) say, "Oh, I just felt the need to pray" only to later find out that their prayers were when someone was in need! We are impaired by our bodies to clearly hear our brothers and sisters in Christ. But those who are spiritually in touch will tell you that they do feel the need to pray and can discern the intention too! When we die, and our spirit is brought to heaven pure and perfect it is still the Body of Christ which unites us, and we are not hindered thus in knowing even more clearly who and for what needs prayer.

2.) It is quite clearly biblical that divination and conjuring the dead is a sin. ( Lev. 19:26, Num. 22:7, Dut. 18:10, etc.) So... A good question to ask a non-Catholic who can't seem to find "praying to Saints" in the Bible is:

If the "dead" can't hear us, why is there even a command not to conjure the dead? LOL. If they can't hear, how does conjuring even work! Now you would then have to debate about the validity of requesting prayerfull intercession as apposted to fotune telling... But there is a clear Biblical proof that the dead can hear.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Jake Huether' date='Jul 6 2005, 04:54 PM']But as members of the Body of Christ, indeed we do hear eachother spiritually, even while on earth.[/quote]
this is a good point that i had not considered before. thanks for sharing it w/ us. i definitely plan on using this point in the future.

btw, the best article i think i've ever read in defense of the communion of saints is this one:

--[url="http://catholic-legate.com/articles/commsaints.html"][b]The Communion of [i]All[/i] Saints: Seven Pillars[/b][/url]

very helpful as well

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[Fides_et_Ratio]

1 Corinthians 12:25-27 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. (26) And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. (27) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

v. 26 I think provides good scriptural support for the awareness of those in Heaven... I also usually bring up the fact that there is ONE Body of Christ, not a body on earth and another body in Heaven. The Church is one.

[phatcatholic]

it always amazing to me how that is such a novel idea, that death would not separate us from the body of Christ. it just seems obvious to me that Jesus' conquering over death would have that effect on the One Body of Christ........

[Maccabeus]

good post "Jake Huether"! actually I myself learned somthing from this.

[Maccabeus]

v. 26 I think provides good scriptural support for the awareness of those in Heaven... I also usually bring up the fact that there is ONE Body of Christ, not a body on earth and another body in Heaven. The Church is one.
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good point!

[Maccabeus]

Thanks "phatcatholic" for the link to the Seven Pillars, that article is seriously a sword to defend our faith.

[phatcatholic]

you know it, bro