dspen2005 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 hopefully, such travesties will not happen.... [url="http://www.arcc-catholic-rights.net/"]http://www.arcc-catholic-rights.net/[/url] read the proposed charter and consitution. (CAUTION: toledo_jesus.... u may want to take a deep breath before reading, or grab a franciskaner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiannii Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Why don't they just go start their own church I do not know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 In most theological circles, this group isn't taken seriously. Don't lose any sleep over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 (edited) They have a feedback page [url="http://www.arcc-catholic-rights.net/feedback.htm"]http://www.arcc-catholic-rights.net/feedback.htm[/url] Anyone care to leave them a comment??? Edited July 9, 2005 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Jul 9 2005, 05:50 AM']hopefully, such travesties will not happen.... [url="http://www.arcc-catholic-rights.net/"]http://www.arcc-catholic-rights.net/[/url] read the proposed charter and consitution. (CAUTION: toledo_jesus.... u may want to take a deep breath before reading, or grab a franciskaner) [right][snapback]637093[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Your criticism seems pretty broad. Could you tell us specifically which section of the proposed constitution you object to and precisely why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avemaria40 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Catholicism is not a democracy, u either take it all or don't take any of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 9 2005, 01:35 PM']RESPONSE: Your criticism seems pretty broad. Could you tell us specifically which section of the proposed constitution you object to and precisely why? [right][snapback]637372[/snapback][/right] [/quote] All of it. Because it is bunk. Clear enough? Probably not. Trollin'...Trollin'....Trollin'....keep them doggies trollin'.... I believe that you will start with the whole "All or nothing fallacy" argument again? Let me be clear and to re-iterate what Avemaria says: Catholicism is all or nothing....either you accept it all or you don't. If you don't, you are not Catholic. Simple....end of this particular discussion for me.....we have been over this before too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 here here. :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Catholicism is all or nothing....either you accept it all or you don't. If you don't, you are not Catholic. Simple....end of this particular discussion for me.....we have been over this before too. [right][snapback]637400[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Yes, we have been over this before, and like the claim of inerrancy in scripture, this too can be shown to be a flawed argument. The "all or nothing" fallacy and the Church "isn't a democracy "are two of the more commonly used arguments by what has been termed "true believers" who really don't have an articulatable belief system. They simply parrot what they are told without analyzing or perhaps even identifying the matter under consideration. But the "all or nothing" argument is not unique to Catholicism. In fact, the need to follow the party line without questioning it is commonly used in conjunction with appeals to patriotism. During the Vietnam war, those in the military who were developing misgivings about the war's moral justification by the country's leadership were told that they had to "Love it or leave it" or be "All the way in or all the way out." Actually, in its early days the Church was a democracy and even popular election of the leadership was the norm. But as Church leaders began to insist on their personal power and demanded more and more authority, this attribute was lost. Perhaps it is time it was regained? Littleles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLJC Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 [quote name='avemaria40' date='Jul 9 2005, 06:45 PM']Catholicism is not a democracy, u either take it all or don't take any of it [right][snapback]637380[/snapback][/right] [/quote] that is a perfect statement! thats all that needs to be said i think, you cant just take a little its all or nothing, NICE! avemaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 the CHurch is hierarchical by Divine decree. to suggest a more democratic approach to church governance not only violates this mandate, but also it reduces belief into a voting matter. We have examples of Prot sects that hold to certain doctrines that are matters upon which representatives voted. Ex. Church of Christ and its stance on homosexuality, ECUSA and it's position on certain bishops, women clergy, etc. THere is TRUTH and there is political statement. A democratic church leads to the latter. There was more that was problematic w/ this group... but it seems the democracy element is what is being probed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 10 2005, 02:20 AM']The "all or nothing" fallacy and the Church "isn't a democracy "are two of the more commonly used arguments by what has been termed "true believers" who really don't have an articulatable belief system. They simply parrot what they are told without analyzing or perhaps even identifying the matter under consideration. [right][snapback]638212[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Except seeing this in *cough* *cough* apologism *ahem,* I don't think this is much trouble. I study it for a living, and as a philosophy student, it all makes [i]rational[/i] sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 How about this? 1. All Orthodox Catholics have the right to be faithful to the Lord, and obedient to the Holy Father and the authority of the Church 2. All Orthodox Catholics have the right to forcefully remove liberal and cafeteria catholics from the Church, and lock them into a mental hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 (edited) [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 10 2005, 04:20 AM']Actually, in its early days the Church was a democracy and even popular election of the leadership was the norm. But as Church leaders began to insist on their personal power and demanded more and more authority, this attribute was lost. Littleles [right][snapback]638212[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You have this same line of thinking on another thread and yet.....you havent shown any proof. What you have shown doesnt even prove your point of view because it is only [i]your[/i] point of view, and certainly not the truth. You wont change the Church Littleles, because you cant change God. Edited July 10, 2005 by Quietfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jul 10 2005, 11:59 AM']How about this? 1. All Orthodox Catholics have the right to be faithful to the Lord, and obedient to the Holy Father and the authority of the Church 2. All Orthodox Catholics have the right to forcefully remove liberal and cafeteria catholics from the Church, and lock them into a mental hospital. [right][snapback]638401[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I like that..... awesome. Go Get'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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