Catholics and Fundamentalists

[photosynthesis]

What's the relationship between Catholicism and Fundamentalism? Are Catholics also Fundamentalists? I know I've been accused of being a fundamentalist, even though fundie televangelists make me really queasy inside. Are the two terms mutually exclusive?

[Apotheoun]

Christian Fundamentalism arose in the early part of the 20th century and was intended as a defense against the modern liberal Protestant denial of certain historic elements of the Christian faith. The original Fundamentalist movement defended five major theological propositions:

1. [i]The Inspiration of Scripture[/i]: This proposition defends the teaching that the books of the Bible are the inspired and inerrant word of God.
2. [i]The Virgin Birth[/i]: This defends the doctrine of Christ's birth from the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary.
3. [i]The Atonement[/i]: The defends the idea that Christ offered Himself as a sacrifice upon the cross in order to satisfy divine justice and reconcile man to God.
4. [i]The Resurrection[/i]: This defends the teaching that Christ rose from the dead on the third day and that He ascended into heaven and continues to make intercession for all men with His Father.
5. [i]Christ's Miracles[/i]: This proposition defends the reality and supernatural character of the miracles that Christ performed during His public ministry.

The Fundamentalist movement was, as I indicated above, a rejection of the more liberal theology that had dominated Protestantism during the last part of the 19th century.

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 11 2005, 09:46 PM']What's the relationship between Catholicism and Fundamentalism?[/quote]
Fundamentalism originated as a movement within liberal Protestantism, and so there is no real historical connection between Catholicism and Fundamentalism.

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 11 2005, 09:46 PM']Are Catholics also Fundamentalists?[/quote]
No, Catholics are not Fundamentalists. Fundamentalism involves the reduction of the Christian faith to a small number of key doctrinal propositions, and this kind of reduction is contrary to the Catholic faith. Catholics must believe all that has been revealed by God and which has been proposed for belief by the Church's Magisterium.

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 11 2005, 09:46 PM']I know I've been accused of being a fundamentalist, even though fundie televangelists make me really queasy inside. Are the two terms mutually exclusive?[/quote]
The term "Fundamentalist" in the media and in society in general has taken on a broader meaning, and is normally meant as a pejorative term of attack against anyone who defends religious or moral principles. Properly speaking Catholics are not, nor will they ever be, Fundamentalists, because the Catholic faith is a holistic reality encompassing all that God has revealed.

[phatcatholic]

just to elaborate on what apotheoun provided, fundamentalists believe that doctrines outside of these 5 fundamentals are "non-essentials." essentially, it doesn't matter to them whether we agree or disagree with doctrines like Mary's Perpetual Virginity, or her Immaculate Conception, or her Assumption, or Purgatory, or Mortal Sin, or the intercession of the saints, or any myriad of other distinctly Catholic doctrines. they chalk this up to "christian liberty."

actually, its rather convenient for them to reduce Christianity down to these 5 fundamentals. its really the only way that they can claim to have some type of unity or communion amongst each other. of course, the unity that Jesus prayed for is much more complete and holistic then the minimalist approach that protestants must take.

i also think that this approach shows a general disregard for Truth. the fundamentalist is okay with possibly being wrong about doctrines outside of the main five. this too is out of necessity, since protestantism is rife w/ such discord and a general rebellion against any authority outside of the individual. he says to himself, "we disagree on so many things, therefore, those things must not matter that much."

a fundamentalist will often reply, "so what, what does that doctrine have to do with my salvation?" you can approach this in one of two ways:

1. show him how it does in fact relate to his salvation
2. show him that, whether it relates to his salvation or not, it is True, and we should never be content with believing something that is false.

here are some articles on fundamentalism:

--[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Fundamentalism.asp"]Fundamentalism[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Fundamentalist_or_Catholic.asp"]Fundamentalist or Catholic?[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/How_to_Talk_with_Fundamentalist.asp"]How to Talk with Fundamentalists[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic-convert.com/DesktopModules/UserDocuments/UserDocuments_ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=250"]Letter to a Fundamentalist[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=875"]A Look at Dave Hunt, Leading Anti-Catholic Fundamentalist[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5247"]Pastoral Statement for Catholics on Biblical Fundamentalism[/url]
--[url="http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0003.html"]Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Eucharist[/url]
--[url="http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0012.html"]Catholicism and Fundamentalism: Food for the Mind[/url]
--[url="http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0013.html"]Fundamentalists[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/FUNDAME1.htm"]Catholics and Fundamentalists[/url]
--[url="http://www.carl-olson.com/articles/hereticalroots_thisrock.html"]Heretical Roots of Fundamentalism[/url]
--[b]note:[/b] also see the "Rapture, Premillennialism, and Dispensationalism" section of the [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=8020"][b][i]Last Things[/i] entry[/b][/url]

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[photosynthesis]

interesting! what about fundamentalists and evangelicals? What's the difference, anyway?

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jul 12 2005, 11:02 AM']they chalk this up to "christian liberty."[right][snapback]640673[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
is that like Martin Luther's "Christian Liberty" document?

[Guest Eremite]

Fundamentalism, much like evolution, often goes beyond its basic meaning as a specific theory or formula, and becomes a philosophy. Fundamentalism is characterized by stunted academic growth, lack of nuance, rigidly impersonal approaches to life and religion, and other traits. To the extent that fundamentalism is a philosophy, it has infected many Catholics, though not the Church itself. Catholics who display fundamentalist tendencies can be self-professed "liberals" or self-professed "conservatives/traditionalists".

[Socrates]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 12 2005, 11:00 AM']interesting!  what about fundamentalists and evangelicals?  What's the difference, anyway?
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Evangelicalism and fundamentalism are often confused. Fundamentalists (in the strict sense of the term) have a more strict and narrow interpretation of Scripture, and advocate a rather strict separation from the world. Evangelicals (commonly mislabeled Fundamentalists) do not practice a separation from the world, but beleive in actively evangelizing and influencing the world. For instance, many evangelicals believe in Christian involvement with politics, while true Fundamentalists believe a Crhistian should not be involved with worldy politics. (I heard a lecture on this a long tiome back, and don't remeber all the details of the differences, but I think I am mostly correct here.)

Most Christians labeled "Fundamentalists" today are really Evangelicals.
True Fundamentalists are a rarer breed.

Edited July 12, 2005 by Socrates

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 12 2005, 01:16 PM']Evangelicalism and fundamentalism are often confused.  Fundamentalists (in the strict sense of the term) have a more strict and narrow interpretation of Scripture, and advocate a rather strict separation from the world.  Evangelicals (commonly mislabeled Fundamentalists) do not practice a separation from the world, but beleive in actively evangelizing and influencing the world.  For instance, many evangelicals believe in christian involvement with politics, while true Fundamentalists believe a Crhistian should not be involved with worldy politics.  (I heard a lecture on this a long tiome back, and don't remeber all the details of the differences, but I think I am mostly correct here.)

Most Christians labeled "Fundamentalists" today are really Evangelicals.
True Fundamentalists are a rarer breed.
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Yeah, think that's a pretty good explaination. I was often labled a fundamentalist, when really we were evangelicals. My husband was, and is, very involved in local politics etc. Also, evangelicals are given more latitude with regard to age of the earth/ creation, etc. than fundies. Education, make up, hair cutting, pants for women are not problems for evangelicals.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Jul 12 2005, 11:10 AM']Fundamentalism, much like evolution, often goes beyond its basic meaning as a specific theory or formula, and becomes a philosophy. Fundamentalism is characterized by stunted academic growth, lack of nuance, rigidly impersonal approaches to life and religion, and other traits. To the extent that fundamentalism is a philosophy, it has infected many Catholics, though not the Church itself. Catholics who display fundamentalist tendencies can be self-professed "liberals" or self-professed "conservatives/traditionalists".
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[/quote]

We have to be careful here. "Fundamentalist" has become an epiphet thrown around by liberals to refer to any one who is serious about their religious beliefs. To a liberal, any Christian who believes that the Bible is true, that Jesus is the really the Son of God, etc., is a "Fundamentalist"

Thus, to secularist and religious liberals, orthodox Catholics who follow the Church's teachings are "Catholic Fundamentalists."

Secularist liberals love to compare Christian "Fundamentalists" (e.g. anyone who takes their Christian faith seriously) to Muslim "Fundamentalists" (Al-Quaeda, the Taliban, etc.) Thus, "reigious fundamentalism" in all its forms is portrayed as danger to society.

[Don John of Austria]

However from when argueing with a fundementalist( who are often anti Catholic) it is amusing to point out that Catholics believe in ALL 5 fundementals. So from a fundie point of view we are indeed fundementalist, I swear once or twice I saw a head do a full 360 degree turn when I pointed that out.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jul 13 2005, 12:30 AM']However from  when argueing with a fundementalist( who are often anti Catholic) it is amusing to point out that Catholics believe in ALL 5 fundementals. So from a fundie point of view we are indeed fundementalist, I swear once or twice I saw a head do a full 360 degree turn when I pointed that out.
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[/quote]

Yeah, that is pretty ironic. What's more, the fundy will claim "liberty" with the rest as they are "non-essentials"... Unless one believes in the perpetual virginity of the BVM or the Real Presence... There is no "liberty" for that.

[Guest Eremite]

[quote]We have to be careful here. "Fundamentalist" has become an epiphet thrown around by liberals to refer to any one who is serious about their religious beliefs. [/quote]

This is true. Some fundamentalists also link any and all evolutionists with atheistic materialism, when in fact there are not a few evolutionary creationists. Language can be abused.

[quote]it is amusing to point out that Catholics believe in ALL 5 fundementals. [/quote]

Jack Van Impe, Protestant prophecy pundit extraordinaire, defended the Holy Father on these grounds, that he believed in the 5 fundamentals, and thus Protestant attacks against him are unwarranted.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Jul 13 2005, 08:33 AM']Jack Van Impe, Protestant prophecy pundit extraordinaire, defended the Holy Father on these grounds, that he believed in the 5 fundamentals, and thus Protestant attacks against him are unwarranted.
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Yeah I saw that 10 years ago or so, I knew then that I liked Van Impe. I grew up in a very Fundementalist area and have always enjoyed using that arguement. Even when I was a kid it amused me.

[Mrvoll]

My co-op church is one and I feel it is sort of great for ecumincal relations.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Mrvoll' date='Jul 14 2005, 05:29 PM']My co-op church is one and I feel it is sort of great for ecumincal relations.
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what's a co-op church?

[Catholic Fanatic]

This is simple theology.

There may be technical and everyday differences between what a Catholic is and what a Fundy is, but let's look at some issues:

Fundamentalist at a very boiled down definition is simply one who is conservative in beliefs. You can and should be a fundamental Catholic. You believe in the Pope and its magisterium. And like the more common form of Fundy's believe it is only through faith in Christ that you are saved, even to the ignorant, the good Catholic believes that you must be a member of the Catholic Church, outside of which there is no salvation at all. I am a Fundamentalist Catholic Fanatic and everyone here who claims to be Catholic should be too.

[kdewolf2]

The word 'fundamentalist' has come to embrace many different meanings. It's original meaning was just somebody, regardless of denomination, who believed in the literal interpretation of Scripture especially with regard to basic Christian doctrine. It was mostly a reaction against liberal Protestantism. Today, the word 'fundamentalist' is used to describe anybody whose beliefs liberal Protestants and secularists consider "backwards" and "ignorant," which includes orthodox Catholics as well as conservative Protestants.

I'm not sure it's accurate to say that fundamentalists really believe it's only necessary to believe the "essentials." Most people who are considered fundamentalists lay claim to a number of beliefs which are equally important to them as the "essentials" which define historic fundamentalism.

My uncle, for example, is a self-described "fundamentalist," but he's also a Calvinist, who considers the five points of Calvinism equally important to the doctrines listed by Apotheoun. He has a number of other beliefs he feels strongly about as well, including creationism, premillennialism,
and presuppositionalism.

If fundamentalists only considered those five beliefs 'essential,' then Christians would not have to believe in the holy Trinity.

[Mrvoll]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 14 2005, 03:33 PM']what's a co-op church?
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It is Wallenstein Bible Chapel. Since the Catholic Church wouldn't take me as a co-op student, I got in with these people

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Mrvoll' date='Jul 19 2005, 07:42 PM']It is Wallenstein Bible Chapel. Since the Catholic Church wouldn't take me as a co-op student, I got in with these people
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what's a co-op student?

[Mrvoll]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 19 2005, 08:07 PM']what's a co-op student?
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It is like an interm