Anglicans to allow women Bishops

[DemonSlayer]

Hardly surprising.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Jul 13 2005, 09:17 AM']But others will be more distant from the Catholic church than ever!

The religious Christian world is segregating, the gray areas are disapearing.  soon there will be only the fervant Catholic, and the fervant Protestant groups totally opposed to the Catholic churche's orthodoxy and infaillible doctrine.  Those destined to change camps are doing som and once this is complete - what will happen from there?

I don't know... I don't know...
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I agree that we will most likely find Catholicism and Fundamentalism the only factions of Christianity throwing any social or political weight. The liberal factions in Protestantism will become blended away with New Age and secularism. They are already empty shells of what they once were.

It seems that the Church has always had some division and I don't see that going away anytime soon.

But I believe if a religion, though started even with good intentions (I don't consider Henry VIII's intentions good, though) does not have the right theological framework, it dissolves into chaos. To me this is happening with Islam.

I call it "Extra Ecclesium Chaotus Maximus"

[kdewolf2]

I've heard that three fastest-growing religions in the world are Catholicism, Pentecostalism, and Islam.

This makes sense because these three religions, while they are very different in many ways, have at least one thing in common:

The assurance of truth and conviction.

People don't really like liberal churches. They only offer people a vague sense of freedom without any assurance of truth.

People, or at least people interested in religion, mainly want answers.

Pentecostalism and Islam may be grossly mistaken from the Catholic perspective, but they do offer firm and convincing answers, which is what Episcopalians and other liberal Protestants are lacking.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Jul 14 2005, 12:31 AM'][snip]

I call it "Extra Ecclesium Chaotus Maximus"
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WOW, my latin is improving, I actually think I understand what you are saying...

outside the church maximum chaos?

I like it... I really like it!



Ya... Henry the 8th... married 8 wives.. no, wait, he married 7 rigth... because HE MARRIED THE SAME ONE TWICE!!! Some people just DO NOT LEARN!

How's that for a founding father and example for the children?!?!?!? His intents where obviously self-serving to the maximus...

Edited July 14, 2005 by Didacus

[Didacus]

[quote name='kdewolf2' date='Jul 14 2005, 06:10 AM']I've heard that three fastest-growing religions in the world are Catholicism, Pentecostalism, and Islam.

This makes sense because these three religions, while they are very different in many ways, have at least one thing in common:

The assurance of truth and conviction.

People don't really like liberal churches.  They only offer people a vague sense of freedom without any assurance of truth.

People, or at least people interested in religion, mainly want answers.

Pentecostalism and Islam may be grossly mistaken from the Catholic perspective, but they do offer firm and convincing answers, which is what Episcopalians and other liberal Protestants are lacking.
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I agree... I have firm respect for both Islam and pentecostal churches... Actually, some of the most interesting conversations on the bible and religion I have had where with pentecostals. It's a sad fact that it is hard to find knowledgeable people within the Catholic faith to discuss these things... at least in the little corner of the world where I am.

Islam some would argue is falling apart... but I do not believe their differences are so much doctrinal in nature as much as they are political and historical so I believe you are correct. Islam by the way, is #1 fastest growing religion in the world.... that much I know for a fact.

I am certain George Bush has nothing to do with it either.... *grumble grumble*

[Noel's angel]

i saw a really interesting programme about this. Unfortunately the Catholic lady was convinced that the Catholic Church will soon have female priests, but then Ann Widicombe came on and shouted at her and told her that they should go and join the Amglican Church instead. She left the Anglican Church over the issue of women priests

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Jul 14 2005, 09:25 AM']I agree... I have firm respect for both Islam and pentecostal churches...  Actually, some of the most interesting conversations on the bible and religion I have had where with pentecostals.  It's a sad fact that it is hard to find knowledgeable people within the Catholic faith to discuss these things... at least in the little corner of the world where I am.

Islam some would argue is falling apart... but I do not believe their differences are so much doctrinal in nature as much as they are political and historical so I believe you are correct.  Islam by the way, is #1 fastest growing religion in the world....  that much I know for a fact.

I am certain George Bush has nothing to do with it either.... *grumble grumble*
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I would not specifically point the finger on George Bush and the situation will not be gone when he leaves office. Make no mistake about it, I'm not defending his foreign policy, and I never agreed with the war in Iraq and I equate it to pouring gasoline on fire. But Muslim anger towards the West (some of it justified) has been simmering for decades. In part we can blame it on our own ignorance, decadence and immoral culture. They view our presence alone as a threat and at the same time they see how morally bankrupt the West has become, view Christianity as a failure, and they find some empowerment in this situation.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Jul 14 2005, 03:57 PM']I would not specifically point the finger on George Bush and the situation will not be gone when he leaves office. Make no mistake about it, I'm not defending his foreign policy, and I never agreed with the war in Iraq and I equate it to pouring gasoline on fire. But Muslim anger towards the West (some of it justified) has been simmering for decades. In part we can blame it on our own ignorance, decadence and immoral culture.  They view our presence alone as a threat and at the same time they see how morally bankrupt the West has become, view Christianity as a failure, and they find some empowerment in this situation.
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You expanded my sarcasm very well Ash... I tend to agree...

I would much rather have a islamist in my house than an atheist... atheists are the scurge of modern science and society...

[Ash Wednesday]

Heh.... yikes, it is scary. It's interesting how people have good intentions of trying to understand the "other side" in this case, the ins and outs of muslim culture and where the divides are, willingness to hear out the Palestinian cause. And YET...many of these same "progressive minded" people ALSO want to advocate absence of religious expression, gay marriage, "free culture" and the like... which really is not going to gain respect from any impressionable Muslim. It's incredibly backwards.

I didn't catch the sarcasm at first.... but I get it now. Ah the limits of the internet.

Edited July 14, 2005 by Ash Wednesday

[Ellenita]

[quote]I've heard that three fastest-growing religions in the world are Catholicism, Pentecostalism, and Islam.[/quote]

Catholicism and Pentecostalism are not different 'religions', they are part of the same religion - Christianity. It's an important distinction as many people in protestant churches do not think Catholics are Christians.....and the media is beginning to talk about the Catholic church as if it's separate from Christianity.


[quote]Ya... Henry the 8th... married 8 wives.. no, wait, he married 7 rigth... because HE MARRIED THE SAME ONE TWICE!!! Some people just DO NOT LEARN![/quote]

Henry VIII had six wives. Easy way to remember their fate in the rhyme:

'Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived'.




There has been a steady stream of Anglicans 'coming home' to the Catholic church for some time - some of us even at Phatmass!

Interestingly there have also been reports of the Anglican church moving closer to union with the Catholic church at the same time. - this will certainly set those moves back somewhat!

[Ash Wednesday]

I'm gonna visit Hampton Court next... King Hankie Eight's hangout. I haven't seen it yet and maybe I'll see a ghost.... oooooOOOOOOOOoooooo

[Didacus]

[quote name='Ellenita' date='Jul 14 2005, 08:01 PM'][snip]

'Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived'.
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Cute... am I msitaken in saying that he married the same one twice?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='cappie' date='Jul 13 2005, 08:20 PM']Church split over women bishops widens
By Malcolm Brown
July 14, 2005

A split between the Sydney Anglican diocese and the rest of Anglican Australia has intensified after the primate, Dr Phillip Aspinall, supported the Church of England's moves to clear the way for the consecration of women bishops.

The Archbishop of Sydney, Dr Peter Jensen, said yesterday the issue itself would not prompt the diocese to secede, but it would be "more difficult" to welcome outside bishops if the rest of the Australian church followed Dr Aspinall.

"This is not something to be welcomed by us," he said.

"But it would lessen the bonds of fellowship."

Dr Aspinall has declared his support for a resolution by the Church of England on Monday to remove legal obstacles to the appointment of women as bishops, saying it is consistent with a decision by the church's general synod last October to endorse the principle of female consecration.

Dr Aspinall said: "More thinking and consultation also needs to take place in relation to those who cannot accept the consecration of women as bishops to ensure the unity of the church to the greatest possible degree."

A hearing is in progress before the Australian church's supreme legal body, the Appellate Tribunal, seeking clarification of the question.

Presided over by Justice Peter Young, chief judge in equity in the Supreme Court of NSW, and including three other lawyers and three bishops, it has called for submissions from dioceses across the country.

The tribunal will decide whether the church's constitution prevents the consecration of women bishops, given women can be ordained as priests.

Dr Jensen said dioceses in Armidale, Ballarat, the Murray and north-western Australia were expected to join Sydney in opposing female consecration.

The Sydney diocese was in favour of women filling many roles, including those of deacons, and there were many women in training.

But it opposed them exercising priestly functions.

The issue was not "gender specific", he said.

Women as well as men opposed the movement towards women bishops, and it would be "interesting" to see how dissenters in England fared.

The issue of consecration of women bishops came before general synod last year and got through the initial readings. It obtained the required two-thirds of the vote in the House of Bishops but failed by relatively small margins to get through the houses of Clergy and Laity.

Elaine Peterson, president of the Sydney Movement for the Ordination of Women, welcomed Dr Aspinall's announcement but despaired of the vote getting through general synod.

"I am a little bit resigned to the fact that it will not occur for some time, maybe not in my lifetime," she said. "But I am not sure how many of us will be in the church then."
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The Anglican Communion reminds me of the US under the Articles of Confederation- it just can't last.