Most Gays & Psychologists Agree...

[Semalsia]

Infinitelord1,

I'm not supporting a lifestyle that includes having sex with everyone that you meet. That has nothing to do with the sexual orientation. It has to do with culture and society. Ok, so gays might be more open about sex. Is that such a surprise considering that they have had to break from traditional understanding of sex anyway?

In most cases those figures are either non-relative to sexual orientation (traffic accidents??) or don't have a reference to same figures about heterosexuals. Large numbers in themselfs don't impress me.

And then there's this: "Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from Christianity". Sort of strange considering the large amount of christian homosexuals. I'm tired of hearing this "homosexual agenda" thing. As if gays were born with a plan in their minds to conquer the world. As in most cases, people only hear the loudmouths. And they tend to have the strongest views too.

Anyways, I don't support any kind of lifestyle. People can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt others. What I am supporting and defending is that people don't have to give up what they are, because some others' absurd reasons. Hell, I'm defending my own life here, since I'm a lesbian. And I can tell you that being gay does not mean the same what that site of your's is suggesting it means. Most gays I know behave just like most straights I know. As if heterosexuals were all chaste. Ever watched Sex and the City? The lifestyle you are against is culture based and not related to homosexuality per se. [b]People are mixing sexual behavior and sexual orientation.[/b]

By "homosexual" that site apparently (at least sometimes) refers only to male homosexuals. It's confusing since now I don't know whether women are involved in some of the figures.

[Apotheoun]

No man is "gay," anymore than he is a "pedophile," because evil and disordered tendencies are not essential qualities or characteristics of the human person. Moreover, disordered inclinations are to be resisted and overcome by the power of God's grace, and so no one should identify himself with these types of evil desires. Disordered inclinations of the will are a consequence of the fall of man from grace, but Jesus Christ became man in order to free all men from slavery to such things, and in the process to restore mankind to communion with God.

[rckllnknny]

jas...i HAVE changed my anger towards others. and i do need to look at that. thank you for showing me respectfully. but theres also things in my heart ive always believed in & when i sought out God i questioned them. but when he called me home i knew ive always known them. the answers are in your heart. catholic or protestant. to me theyre both right. and interpreting the bible how you want to. everyone does. its a mirror...to catch your reflection...it speaks to your heart but only if yove reached past your fears through hope and faith. and each time interpretations will bring on new (and wonderful) meanings until you realize the bible speaks of a glorious language in always and of all ways. i promise. God bless...

Edited July 14, 2005 by rckllnknny

[jasJis]

I re-posted this because it immedeiately got lost at the end of the other page. Let's stick to topic and use PM or e-mail to whine and apologize.

Nobody addressed my point.

Genetic 'tendency' is not the neccesary determination of future behavior.

Track's scientific article gave good evidence to both 'genetic' and 'environment' as a complex cause. Small minded people choose either for their 'political' stance. An honest analysis shows that their isn't one specific cause. Genetic tendency may be factual, but that isn't the end of the story. It's shown that environment has a tremendous effect on how one copes with a tendency.

Only a small circle of behaviorists profess a strict 'genetic' or instinctual behavior. We are not small willed animals. We can direct our will and choose our actions, even over our natural instinct.

[rckllnknny]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jul 14 2005, 06:17 PM']it's John 3:16.  Also, read the beginning of St. Paul's Letter to the Roman's, specifically Romans 1:20-2:1.  The Bible is clear that regardless of what causes it, homosexuality is sinful and wrong.  We ought not to be complacent and say, "well, since everyone is a sinner, it's OK, that's just the way it is."  Because the cross of Christ has conquered death, we CAN overcome sin through the power of the Resurrection.  It is possible to have the condition of homosexuality, but it is not an intrinsic part of the identity of a person.  It's not who you are, it's what you do.  All people, including people who struggle with homosexuality, are called to repent of their sins and believe in the Gospel.  Faith in the Gospel is not enough for salvation, a person needs to turn away from their sins and embrace God's call to holiness.
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i agree with you completely.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='rckllnknny' date='Jul 14 2005, 06:25 PM']jas...i HAVE changed my anger towards others. and i do need to look at that. thank you for showing me respectfully. but theres also things in my heart ive always believed in & when i sought out God i questioned them. but when he called me home i knew ive always known them. the answers are in your heart. catholic or protestant. to me theyre both right. and interpreting the bible how you want to. everyone does. its a mirror...to catch your reflection...it speaks to your heart but only if yove reached past your fears through hope and faith. and each time interpretations will bring on new (and wonderful) meanings until you realize the bible speaks of a glorious language in always and of all ways. i promise. God bless...
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You have deep insights, but some of the things you say will and do rub people the wrong way.

I understand that scripture will speak to you in a way you can understand, but that does not mean that every persons interpretation is as good as another. Jesus came with one message, and he meant that message in the way he told it. The reason for so much disunity among Christians is because everyone interprets scripture on their own, and then everyone has different ideas of what is right and wrong according to Jesus.

The word of God is universal, and speaks a glorious language, but its always the same message, not a matter of personal interpretation, or based on how you feel that day.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Jul 14 2005, 06:22 PM']Infinitelord1,

I'm not supporting a lifestyle that includes having sex with everyone that you meet. That has nothing to do with the sexual orientation. It has to do with culture and society. Ok, so gays might be more open about sex. Is that such a surprise considering that they have had to break from traditional understanding of sex anyway?

In most cases those figures are either non-relative to sexual orientation (traffic accidents??) or don't have a reference to same figures about heterosexuals. Large numbers in themselfs don't impress me.

And then there's this: "Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from Christianity". Sort of strange considering the large amount of christian homosexuals. I'm tired of hearing this "homosexual agenda" thing. As if gays were born with a plan in their minds to conquer the world. As in most cases, people only hear the loudmouths. And they tend to have the strongest views too.

Anyways, I don't support any kind of lifestyle. People can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt others. What I am supporting and defending is that people don't have to give up what they are, because some others' absurd reasons. Hell, I'm defending my own life here, since I'm a lesbian. And I can tell you that being gay does not mean the same what that site of your's is suggesting it means. Most gays I know behave just like most straights I know. As if heterosexuals were all chaste. Ever watched Sex and the City? The lifestyle you are against is culture based and not related to homosexuality per se. [b]People are mixing sexual behavior and sexual orientation.[/b]

By "homosexual" that site apparently (at least sometimes) refers only to male homosexuals. It's confusing since now I don't know whether women are involved in some of the figures.
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Semalsia, I understand your position in all of this and it is great that you have opened up. However, please do not be offended with what i am about to say...........you are a classic example, just as i was, of a non-believer of god. This may something to do with your orientation it may not. But you certainly dont live your life like there is a god since you are gay. And because i didnt want to be gay.........i chose to seek out a god and be open to the possibility of his existence. The more and more i learn the more my faith grows and the less this homosexual issue eats away at me. The more i strive to walk in christs path the more i notice a change in myself.......the less homosexual urges i get. I never onced denied that a gay couple love each other.......i firmly believe that there are many gay couples that love each other all over the earth. Its there sexual orientation that makes it wrong. It the relationship as a whole was not intended by god.......but this means nothing to you because you have no faith in god.

[rckllnknny]

photo.
except..your last sentence.
i believe..faith alone, by grace, is the only way you will ever fall away from sin and lead you to Gods glorious good works.
fidei..LOL..i understand. but it was the topic at hand that was relative. i already KNOW that you disagree.

Edited July 14, 2005 by rckllnknny

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='rckllnknny' date='Jul 14 2005, 06:34 PM']photo.
except..your last sentence.
i believe..faith alone, by grace, is the only way you will ever fall away from sin and lead you to Gods glorious good works.
fidei..LOL..i understand. but it was the topic at hand that was relative. i already KNOW that you disagree.
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Then please, do yourself a favor, and think before you decide to start with your angry sounding responses. All I said was that I disagreed, and then you blew up at me.. over nothing.

Think first.

[jasJis]

[quote name='rckllnknny' date='Jul 14 2005, 06:25 PM']... catholic or protestant. to me theyre both right. and interpreting the bible how you want to. everyone does. its a mirror...to catch your reflection...it speaks to your heart but only if yove reached past your fears through hope and faith. and each time interpretations will bring on new (and wonderful) meanings until you realize the bible speaks of a glorious language in always and of all ways. i promise. God bless...
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rck,
The Bible isn't a mirror, and I don't accept that we can all interpret it the way we want. The Bible is really an open window. If we see our reflection, it's because we're looking at it, not through it. Prot's and Cath's both have some things right, but when we disagree, it is most likely only one is right. That's why it's usually best to work from what we agree on, and not about what we disagree about.

[Semalsia]

[quote name='jasjis']We are not small willed animals. We can direct our will and choose our actions, even over our natural instinct.[/quote]

Yes, behavior can be changed. Gays can have sex with the opposite sex, it's quite easy actually. But whether he/she likes it or not, depends on the sexual orientation. Just like straight people can have sex with the same sex, but will probably dislike it.

[rckllnknny]

fidei..

quote..The word of God is universal, and speaks a glorious language.

true.

quote..not a matter of personal interpretation, or based on how you feel that day.

..evidence or proof of existing indifferential matters of interpretation...different denominations.
..come on.. that one was obvious.

[jasJis]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Jul 14 2005, 06:37 PM'][quote name='jasjis']We are not small willed animals. We can direct our will and choose our actions, even over our natural instinct.[/quote]

Yes, behavior can be changed. Gays can have sex with the opposite sex, it's quite easy actually. But whether he/she likes it or not, depends on the sexual orientation. Just like straight people can have sex with the same sex, but will probably dislike it.
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Ah-ha! You've opened the door to changing or re-inforcing behavior based on concsience and sub-conscience perceptions.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='rckllnknny' date='Jul 14 2005, 06:39 PM']fidei..

quote..The word of God is universal, and speaks a glorious language.

true.

quote..not a matter of personal interpretation, or based on how you feel that day.

..evidence or proof of existing indifferential matters of interpretation...different denominations.
..come on.. that one was obvious.
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Im not quite sure what you are getting at here, but I honestly dont care about anything to do with denominations. The Christian faith has none. There is one Lord, and one faith. We were given one faith.

Any "denomination" of christianity is due to the rejection of legit authority and proclaiming one's self as the ultimate authority to what Jesus' message was.

[rckllnknny]

jas..open window is a better way of looking at it. but if we could all look at it together and see we can look at it in the light of every possible way together at the same time. we would experience the virtous co-existance as harmonious balance. and all would be enlightend into the greater peace of which is God. but we are limited on a spectrum of time, but not by unlimited space. which is fulfilled by the prophecies of our Father who speaks only one language..which is..LOVE.
THAT..unconditonal..is our common(sometimes hidden) bond...that we may always agree on.

Edited July 14, 2005 by rckllnknny

[rckllnknny]

...which is Jesuss message.

AMEN.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Jul 14 2005, 06:37 PM'][quote name='jasjis']We are not small willed animals. We can direct our will and choose our actions, even over our natural instinct.[/quote]

Yes, behavior can be changed. Gays can have sex with the opposite sex, it's quite easy actually. But whether he/she likes it or not, depends on the sexual orientation. Just like straight people can have sex with the same sex, but will probably dislike it.
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you have to ask yourself though.........and i am asking you personally semalsia, why cant you have sex with a man and enjoy it? If you are thinking because you are gay.........then that is not an answer since we dont know if people are genetically or physically in some way determined to be gay at birth. This is not enough reason to believe that you are gay and you cant change. This concept is based off of your own persception and feelings of reality. From a christian perspective, we have free will and we can change the way we are if we put effort into it, and if we desire it. "If you asketh you will recieveth".

[Semalsia]

[quote name='jasJis']Ah-ha! You've opened the door to changing or re-inforcing behavior based on concsience and sub-conscience perceptions.[/quote]

You are confusing me. I thought I just stated the obvious.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='rckllnknny' date='Jul 14 2005, 08:34 PM']photo.
except..your last sentence.
i believe..faith alone, by grace, is the only way you will ever fall away from sin and lead you to Gods glorious good works.
fidei..LOL..i understand. but it was the topic at hand that was relative. i already KNOW that you disagree.
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Faith without works is dead. Jesus said that it is not enough to cry out "Lord, Lord." We need to do the will of Our Father. God remembers all of our good deeds and will reward us for them at the Last Judgment.

St. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13, that even if you have faith to move mountains, it is nothing without Love. You can speak in tongues, and miracles can be done through you, but without Love, it is worth nothing to God.

Obviously belief is an important element of salvation, but as Bro. Adam's quote thingy says, "you can't preach creme and live skim milk."

[infinitelord1]

semalsia,

seriously........why cant you have relations with a man and like it?