First Century Christian-Jewish Relations

[LittleLes]

So following the death and ascension of Jesus about 32 A.D. his followers remained Torah observant Jews and part of the Jewish community. This continued until about 90 A.D. when they were labeled heretics and excluded from the Temple.

The Gospel of John written about this time or shortly thereafter refers to this event:

Jn 9:22 "His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews, for the Jews had already agreed that if anyone acknowledged him as the Messiah, he would be expelled from the synagogue"

Jn 12:42 "Nevertheless, many, even among the authorities, believed in him, but because of the Pharisees they did not acknowledge it openly in order not to be expelled from the synagogue.

Jn 16:2 "They will expel you from the synagogues; in fact, the hour 1 is coming when everyone who kills you will think he is offering worship to God."

Why, after 60 years, were the members of the Way excluded? Was there a change in their belief system which caused them to be labeled as heretics by the Jewish authorities?

[LittleLes]

The first followers of Jesus after the Ascension c. 32 AD, remained a sect within orthodox Judaism, monotheistic, Torah observant, and praying in the Temple and synagogues. (See Acts and John). But after about 60 years (c 90AD), they were expelled from the synagogues by the Jewish authorities and labeled as heretics.

Which of the following reasons (or suggest alternates) caused this to happen:

1. The Jewish Christians began to claim divinity for Jesus and this conflicted with Judaism's strict monotheism. While the Jews were open to someone being the Messiah, he would not be divine.

2. Jesus did not return (parousia) as he had prophecized.

3. Some of the Jewish Christians, perhaps at Paul's urging, began to deviate from strict Torah observance. Some adopted Gnostic beliefs (as described in John 1).

[Guest illegitimo]

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[quote]It is commonly but mistakenly held that from the very beginning of Christianity, Christians and Jews were foes. But this is not the case.[/quote]

If you read Acti Pilati (the acts of pilate) It is not a bit surprising that the Jewish religeous authorities were tolerant. When you add the events of the trial and crucufiction the ressurection of Moshiach ben Joseph/David and the saints and all the other witnesses there must have been. Remember that James the brother of Jesus taught in the temple right up to the rebellion (which he was probably murdered trying to prevent)and subsequent destruction (by errant Roman soldiers seeking to melt the remaining gold from the joints of the stones) of the remnants (minus the ark) of the second temple.

The ressurection events would have undoubtably converted the cult of the Sadduces immediately into some more benign form. Imagine if it all happened up your street.

Not an extraordinary stretch of the imagination. I´m sure you will agree.

[kateri05]

woah, thats an old thread!

ps. what ever happened to Littleles and Todd?

[homeschoolmom]

Little Les only has 3838 hours left on his suspension. I'm sure he's waiting patiently to get back in the game.

[kateri05]

lol... hmmm... 3838 divided by 24...


5 months? wow. he must have been naughty

Todd? what happened to him? did he go off to be a bzyantine priest? teehee

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jul 19 2005, 05:19 PM']The only better authority on all things Catholic is the Discovery channel.

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I dunno, the History Channel is pretty high up there is well.... :

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 20 2005, 11:14 AM']RESPONSE:

I think that most Catholics, if they study religion at all, are familiar with the following publications:

1. The (New) Catechism of the Catholic Church. (on line)
2. The New American Bible (copyrighted by the US Catholic Conference of Bishops and developed by the Catholic Biblical Association)(on line)
3. The Catholic Encyclopedia. (The old edition is on line)

Of course, if you want to claim that you don't know of these publications or attack their reliability, you might want to start a thread on that topic.

Regarding the Jewish parties and sects comprising orthodox Judaism in the first century, I would have thought that the four Jewish scholars who wrote the PBS articles would probably be in the best position to recount the Jewish history ofthat period. But apparently Kilroy and CAM don't think so, but present no specific challenge, except that it was a PBS publication.

I'm not sure how to handle these objections. On the one hand if I cite any of the three "Catholic" publications above, especially the NAB, somebody objects. If I cite non-catholic historians or biblical scholars, the implication I get is that they're never reliable.

Apparently, I'm suppose to confine my use of references to Catholic Answers or EWTN.
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If they are from post-Vatican 2 catholic sources, especially the Bible and the Catechism I think you should have a chance to show what you want to show. While I doubt it will meet with success, I am always interested in learning something new. Have at it.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 20 2005, 07:15 PM']But I'm curious if  are still maintaining the traditional Church teaching that the earth doesn't move? Rumor has it that you are beginning to deviate from the party line on this scripturally based truth. [right][snapback]651862[/snapback][/right]
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It's funny because this is actually the very issue I was going to study when I had some free time. I heard of an interesting book coming out on geocentrism that I might buy. Science has certainly been wrong before, why not how.

P.S. Not saying science IS wrong on this, but just that I don't place a lot of trust in the science that is put out in the last some centuries.

But that is off-topic, back to the convo.

[goldenchild17]

hehe, I didn't see that this was an old thread... sorry.