is there a god?

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='thedude' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:43 PM']We cannot have an infinite regression, because at some point, something had to just "exist."
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thedude, fidei defensor:

And that something could just be a universe that gave birth to a plethora of universes, not a God that exists outside of time and space. Who knows. I definitely see where having a God fits in well with creation, but all in all, its just another metaphysical concept that one supposes or not. We certainly cannot test for something like this, hence we have faith. I don't think its a dumb idea, I just don't think its the only possibility.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:46 PM']but there is a beginning to life and an end..........this tells me that life had to have started at one point in time........what could have caused it? What about dna? Information that determines the type of life that is to become life.....a non living piece of matter does not contain DNA. It must have come from something else.
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Heh, we are back to where we started on my first post. What , who caused everything, I don't know. Its a mystery

[jmjtina]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jul 20 2005, 01:36 PM']This belongs in another thread, more suited for the nature of morality. I see what you are trying to imply, that we need an objective source for moral standards.
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No, we don't need another thread IMHO. If you don't believe in God, then the next question follows.

And if you don't think there is enough proof to know that there is a God, then obviously, there isn't enough proof to disprove Him either. And if your avatar says "Proud of My Ancestry" then you believe in Darwin's theory, even if he himself stated in his book that there had to be a higher being to allow it to be so?

and the excorsist is scary enough to give ANYONE nightmares!

[infinitelord1]

i just read about a case somewhere in eastern europe.......i think albania.........where a soon to be priest tried to preform an exorcism on a nun. He was not qualified at all to do this and i think he crucified her and didnt feed her for days. She ended up dying and the priest was excommunicated. If nothing bad comes from the exorcism i dont see anything wrong with trying to preform one.......whether the victim is possessed or not.......I dont know. Some victims may be looking for reasons on why they are the way they are. "Possession" could just be a scape goat. But I really dont know much about demon possession myself to really form an opinion. I will not just write it off as false.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:51 PM']thedude, fidei defensor:

And that something could just be a universe that gave birth to a plethora of universes, not a God that exists outside of time and space. Who knows.  I definitely see where having a God fits in well with creation, but all in all, its just another metaphysical concept that one supposes or not.  We certainly cannot test for something like this, hence we have faith. I don't think its a dumb idea, I just don't think its the only possibility.
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I think "infinite regression" really dodges the issue. If something "farted" the universe, this implies pre-existing matter (of some form), and we are left with the question of where THAT came from. This does not answer anything philosophically, but simply tries to dodge the issue of the first cause by saying there is none.

[ergosum]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jul 20 2005, 02:41 PM']This is for ergosum-

Do you believe that the historical Jesus existed?
If not, why?
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Yes, of course I believe that historically a man existed, who supposedly was called "Jesus" and whose story and life is chronicled in books other than the new testaments.

And, you absolutely have NO NEED for a God to exist in order to have an OBJECTIVE foundation for morality. I do not subscribe to relativism, subjectivism, skepticism, or logical positivism.

FYI: I was once a very very very very crazyily devout CATHOLIC.
Then I spiritually converted to protestant Christianity.
Later, due to some inconsistancies and dissatisfaction, I tried to understand Islam and Judaism.
None of that worked for me... didn't make all the sense I wanted God to make.
Then I looked at non-deistic religions like Buddhism, Jainism... nah. Those were worse!
Then I found Atheism! Almost like my own personal religion. Only, I know it's better.. and TRUE! And now I feel so good, and "enlightened" and great about living this wonderful life!

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:54 PM']No, we don't need another thread IMHO. If you don't believe in God, then the next question follows.

And if you don't think there is enough proof to know that there is a God, then obviously, there isn't enough proof to disprove Him either. And if your avatar says "Proud of My Ancestry" then you believe in Darwin's theory, even if he himself stated in his book that there had to be a higher being to allow it to be so?

and the excorsist is scary enough to give ANYONE nightmares! 
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You cannot disprove something that hasn't been proven. Its like court, the burden is on the person making the positive statement. As far as good ole darwin. Dont get caught in the evolution hoopla. Evolution says nothing about how life is created, just how life evolves.

[infinitelord1]

i think it is fine to go into morality on this thread........that is why i created it........because morality boils down to whether there is a god or not.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:56 PM']I think "infinite regression" really dodges the issue.  If something "farted" the universe, this implies pre-existing matter (of some form), and we are left with the question of where THAT came from.  This does not answer anything philosophically, but simply tries to dodge the issue of the first cause by saying there is none.
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I agree and disagree with you socs. I agree its definitely been used as a dodge tool, a stalemate if you will. But at the same time, I don't see how we have to account for pre-existing matter, if I can just say it always existed. I just use the same logic that holds God from requiring a causer to say something like the universe.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jul 20 2005, 04:51 PM']thedude, fidei defensor:

And that something could just be a universe that gave birth to a plethora of universes, not a God that exists outside of time and space.
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I hope we aren't pestering you, but my problem is that this "universe" (which gives birth to more universes, ect.) had to come from somewhere. Hence, there are two possibilities:

This universe has an origin, and that origin is what we call God.

or...

...this universe did not have an origin, it merely existed. In this case, what we are calling a "universe" is not really a universe, but God Himself.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='ergosum' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:57 PM']Yes, of course I believe that historically a man existed, who supposedly was called "Jesus" and whose story and life is chronicled in books other than the new testaments.[right][snapback]651426[/snapback][/right]
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Well, lets start there then.

How do you stand on what he taught, and how it affected the people who met him?

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='ergosum' date='Jul 20 2005, 03:57 PM']Yes, of course I believe that historically a man existed, who supposedly was called "Jesus" and whose story and life is chronicled in books other than the new testaments.

And, you absolutely have NO NEED for a God to exist in order to have an OBJECTIVE foundation for morality. I do not subscribe to relativism, subjectivism, skepticism, or logical positivism.

FYI: I was once a very very very very crazyily devout CATHOLIC.
Then I spiritually converted to protestant Christianity.
Later, due to some inconsistancies and dissatisfaction, I tried to understand Islam and Judaism.
None of that worked for me... didn't make all the sense I wanted God to make.
Then I looked at non-deistic religions like Buddhism, Jainism... nah. Those were worse!
Then I found Atheism! Almost like my own personal religion. Only, I know it's better.. and TRUE! And now I feel so good, and "enlightened" and great about living this wonderful life!
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Ayn Rand eh?