MC Just Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 ah this has turned into yet another cam and hot stuff thread. sheesh.
Carrie Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote name='MC Just' date='Jul 21 2005, 11:07 AM']ah this has turned into yet another cam and hot stuff thread. sheesh. [right][snapback]652354[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Really? I could swear that it was mostly Ironmonk and Cam. Hmm, must be my paltry IQ talking.
Jaime Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote name='MC Just' date='Jul 21 2005, 09:07 AM']ah this has turned into yet another cam and hot stuff thread. sheesh. [right][snapback]652354[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't think that's a fair statement. Read through the thread. When things heated up between IM and Cam, one of the reasons I didn't add to it was to not appear like we were ganging up on IM. Camster has things well in hand. He certainly doesn't need my help!
ironmonk Posted July 21, 2005 Author Posted July 21, 2005 (edited) Cam, Go back and reread... s l o w l y. You three would profit from focusing on the study of logic. "Don't intimidate you" - gimme a break tough guy...lol Shut up or prove me wrong. It's that simple. I don't want your pointless speculation and I'm not going to waste my time with it anymore. Many of your so called "points" have already been answered on this board. It seems you are having a problem with the simple logic used. Pay attention and give thought to it... learn to add two and two. It's like we have to spell everything out. You look at my posts like a baptist looks at the bible, takes one line and runs with it while ignoring all the details. Every post you do that is not corrective with the resources that you will need to use to correct me (logic, Scripture, and Catechism) just goes to show that I am correct. I will go on believing I'm correct until I am corrected. If I am wrong, I want correction... this is turning out just as with dialogs I have with anti-Catholics about I know what I'm talking about with the Catholic Church, this is they can't prove me wrong so that feel they have to rant about what I wrote. A obvious display of not having the truth or being able to accept the truth. You will not convince me of your realitivism by simply saying I'm wrong. When will you learn that if you want to correct someone you need to come with a greater authority than yourself. Jamie, "can't say the same for IM"? I thought you said you had a masters in psych? Sounds like you have a problem paying attention and/or apply what you think you learned. When someone comes with corrective authority then I'll be happy to continue the dialog, but your all's pointless "nah nah na boo boo" style "correction" is a waste of my time, and anyone's reading the thread. Great job on dumbing down the value of the debate board. How about a little intelligent debate - hopefully you'll learn what that means.... Look up debates with mustbenothing and circle master - they debated with intelligence, even though they were in error, they did their homework. You could actually learn from those anti-Catholics. You argue like children. You can do one of three things... 1) ignore this 2) continue to rant and argue like children 3) learn and debate with intelligence God Bless, ironmonk Edited July 21, 2005 by ironmonk
Jaime Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 (edited) [quote]Jamie, "can't say the same for IM"? I thought you said you had a masters in psych? Sounds like you have a problem paying attention and/or apply what you think you learned. [/quote] Hey I'm just respecting the fact that you've gotten so sensitive in the past when I've made assumptions about you. I've know Cam for years. I can tell by his writing when he's upset and when he's not. Paladin was worried about things getting to heated here and I was just confirming the fact that at least Camster wasn't getting heated. And yes I do have a Master's in psych. I would have shown you more of my training if you hadn't chosen to run and hide on the therapy thread so quickly. [quote]You argue like children. You can do one of three things... 1) ignore this 2) continue to rant and argue like children 3) learn and debate with intelligence[/quote] Let's look at the facts shall we? You start the thread with "Come away from the evil" of the Democratic Party. I respond by introducing you to Democrats for Life which is dedicated to ending abortion and embryonic stem cell research. Carrie rightly affirms that this is a good organization You respond with insults, by calling us ignorant and that no democrat in public office ascribes to this organization. I give you a list of literally hundreds of pro life democrats in public office. You respond with insults Cam has offered sources You respond with insults Children respond with insults when they cannot come up with an intelligent response. Edited July 21, 2005 by jaime
Cam42 Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 21 2005, 10:49 AM']Cam, Go back and reread... s l o w l y. You three would profit from focusing on the study of logic. "Don't intimidate you" - gimme a break tough guy...lol Shut up or prove me wrong. It's that simple. I don't want your pointless speculation and I'm not going to waste my time with it anymore. Many of your so called "points" have already been answered on this board. It seems you are having a problem with the simple logic used. Pay attention and give thought to it... learn to add two and two. It's like we have to spell everything out. You look at my posts like a baptist looks at the bible, takes one line and runs with it while ignoring all the details. Every post you do that is not corrective with the resources that you will need to use to correct me (logic, Scripture, and Catechism) just goes to show that I am correct. I will go on believing I'm correct until I am corrected. If I am wrong, I want correction... this is turning out just as with dialogs I have with anti-Catholics about I know what I'm talking about with the Catholic Church, this is they can't prove me wrong so that feel they have to rant about what I wrote. A obvious display of not having the truth or being able to accept the truth. You will not convince me of your realitivism by simply saying I'm wrong. When will you learn that if you want to correct someone you need to come with a greater authority than yourself. Jamie, "can't say the same for IM"? I thought you said you had a masters in psych? Sounds like you have a problem paying attention and/or apply what you think you learned. When someone comes with corrective authority then I'll be happy to continue the dialog, but your all's pointless "nah nah na boo boo" style "correction" is a waste of my time, and anyone's reading the thread. Great job on dumbing down the value of the debate board. How about a little intelligent debate - hopefully you'll learn what that means.... Look up debates with mustbenothing and circle master - they debated with intelligence, even though they were in error, they did their homework. You could actually learn from those anti-Catholics. You argue like children. You can do one of three things... 1) ignore this 2) continue to rant and argue like children 3) learn and debate with intelligence God Bless, ironmonk [right][snapback]652419[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't have to prove you wrong, you did that yourself, thank you very much. What is with the insults? "Tough guy?" I haven't been called that since I was a junior in high school, sweetheart. Bullying one around the boards is not becoming. 2+2=4. There ya go. I have ignored none of your posts. I have actually agreed with part of them, however, it is YOU who refuse to see that. See, the thing is that you want your cake (being Republican and Catholic), and eat it too (you can't let politics decide your views). You say that the Church defines what you believe, that is great, however, I will ask again....How do you reconcile: [quote name='USCCB; Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility']A Catholic moral framework does not easily fit the ideologies of "right" or "left," nor tthe platforms of any party. Our values are often not "politically correct." Believers are called to be a community of conscience within the larger society and to test public life by the values of Scripture and the principles of Catholic social teaching. Our responsibility is to measure all candidates, policies, parties, and platforms by how they protect or undermine the life, dignity, and rights of the human person, whether they protect the poor and vulnerable and advance the common good.[/quote] It is totally inconsistent with this statement, which you made: [quote]The reason why I'm a registered rep is so that I can vote in the primaries and get good Catholic elected.[/quote] You are equating being a good Catholic with being Republican. That is in DIRECT conflict with the above quote from the USCCB, which you provided to us. Logic anyone? [quote]You will not convince me of your realitivism by simply saying I'm wrong.[/quote] How am I being a relativist? My views are not only consistent, but also very in line with the Catholic Church. But you haven't asked me about any of that yet. So far all you have done is lob softballs. More insults.....bully. I am still not intimidated. Ask hot stuff, I once gave an internet beat down to Barb Kralis. And she is a heck of a lot tougher than you. Also, I am not claiming to be an authority, but thanks for assuming that I am. I am simply posting your contradictions. You have yet to respond to them. I am aware of the debate tactics of the internet (if one doesn't have a response or doesn't want to respond, ignore it), but it will not go away. Answer the contradictions. They are on the record now. [quote name='Ironmonk']but your all's pointless "nah nah na boo boo" style "correction" is a waste of my time, and anyone's reading the thread.[/quote] And you say that we: [quote]You argue like children.[/quote] Laughable....those are some big words. [quote]You can do one of three things... 1) ignore this 2) continue to rant and argue like children 3) learn and debate with intelligence[/quote] 1. Nope. 2. The "nah nah na boo boo" statement was very adult of you. 3. I'm waiting patiently for you to begin.
Apotheoun Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 If a pro-life Democrat (something unheard of here in my district in California) were running against a pro-abortion Republican, I would vote for the Democrat. If a pro-life Democrat were running against a pro-life Republican, I would look at their stands on other issues (e.g., the devolution of power back to the States and local jurisdictions, doing away with elements of the federal bureaucracy, removing federal controls on education, etc.), and then vote for the candidate who supported those positions. Sadly, the likelihood of my ever being able to vote for a pro-life Democrat is infinitesimally small, because the pro-life movement in the Democrat Party is powerless, and it is unlikely to gain power in my lifetime.
Cam42 Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote name='MC Just' date='Jul 21 2005, 10:07 AM']ah this has turned into yet another cam and hot stuff thread. sheesh. [right][snapback]652354[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Is that like the Itchy and Scratchy Show? I wanna be Scratchy.....
Apotheoun Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 As far as I can see, the thread appears to be going in circles.
Jaime Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote]Sadly, the likelihood of my ever being able to vote for a pro-life Democrat is infinitesimally small, because the pro-life movement in the Democrat Party is powerless, and it is unlikely to gain power in my lifetime.[/quote] You are correct in that, if we do nothing to support it. Those of us that connect to much of the Democratic platform [i]should not be discouraged for promoting[/i] an organization that is trying to change the Democratic party on the issue of life. It only takes a small group of people to make a change!
Carrie Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jul 21 2005, 12:25 PM']Sadly, the likelihood of my ever being able to vote for a pro-life Democrat is infinitesimally small, because the pro-life movement in the Democrat Party is powerless, and it is unlikely to gain power in my lifetime. [right][snapback]652478[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Its powerless now because the support is so minimal. If greater numbers of people supported Pro-Life Democrats now, they would not remain powerless forever. Maybe things won't change during our lifetime, but we should do all we can to help bring that change about for our children and our children's children. Just my .02 cents.
Cam42 Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote]If a pro-life Democrat (something unheard of here in my district in California) were running against a pro-abortion Republican, I would vote for the Democrat.[/quote] You should talk to my dad sometime. He has been able to do that for years now. And I got to until 1998.
Apotheoun Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 21 2005, 08:30 AM']You are correct in that, if we do nothing to support it. Those of us that connect to much of the Democratic platform [i]should not be discouraged for promoting[/i] an organization that is trying to change the Democratic party on the issue of life. It only takes a small group of people to make a change! [right][snapback]652490[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I gave up on the Democrat Party in 1980 and have no intention of becoming a Democrat. I will pray for the small number of pro-life Democrats, that somehow they restore right reason and a true sense of morality to that party, but I don't foresee them having any effect in the short term on either the abortion issue or on preventing the moral decay brought about by the endorsement of homosexual activity and so-called "gay" rights.
Jaime Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 Rosa Parks was one woman. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step
Apotheoun Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 21 2005, 08:35 AM']Rosa Parks was one woman. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step [right][snapback]652502[/snapback][/right] [/quote] There comes a time when a person sees that something is so corrupt that it is irreformable. At that point a person is better off starting afresh by creating something new. If you feel called to try and change the Democrat Party, you have my prayers.
Carrie Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jul 21 2005, 12:33 PM']but I don't foresee them having any effect in the short term on either the abortion issue or on preventing the moral decay brought about by the endorsement of homosexual activity and so-called "gay" rights. [right][snapback]652497[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Most major changes do not happen in the "short term." Things take time and effort.
Apotheoun Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote name='Carrie' date='Jul 21 2005, 08:39 AM']Most major changes do not happen in the "short term." Things take time and effort. [right][snapback]652509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I will certainly pray for you, because I have witnessed the moral decay of the Democrat Party expand over my lifetime, and things are not getting better, they are getting far worse. If anyone had said in 1978 that there would be Democrat politicians for "gay" rights, and for "gay" marriage, that person would have been laughed at as an idiot, and yet, that is what we have come to today. Good luck and best wishes to you in your efforts.
Theoketos Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 I am kinda of shocked or maybe startled at the lack of charity on many accounts here. That being said, I think the person who consistantly wears a storm tropper costum was the most mature... Jamie, just for clarification, could you list three Major principles of the Democratic Party which are in line with Catholic Social Teaching and main tennants of the Party... And we must remember that the Church is not a third way, but a lens by which we gauge political movements.
Jaime Posted July 21, 2005 Posted July 21, 2005 [quote]Jamie, just for clarification, could you list three Major principles of the Democratic Party which are in line with Catholic Social Teaching and main tennants of the Party...[/quote] Well first of all I think that the letter I posted from the USCCB goes to answer your question. But from the Democratic platform recently published "Reject choice of healthy economy vs. healthy environment. " "Reauthorize assault weapons ban, close gun show loophole" " Knock down barriers to free, fair and balanced trade." These are all major platform tenets Understand that I am not arguing that the Republican party is wrong in their approach. I am arguing that there are some good democrats out there. There are principles of the Democratic party that are line with Catholicism. As I've said, I will not vote for a pro choice candidate. (Didn't even vote for Bush because of that)
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