John 3:5 and baptism

[goldenchild17]

Douay Rheims "Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Is this a more accurate translation than others? If so, it makes the verse much more clear but I don't know if it is a better translation of the greek or not(or the Aramaic I guess).

[StColette]

Here's the Latin Vulgate

John 3:5
respondit Iesus amen amen dico tibi nisi quis renatus fuerit ex aqua et Spiritu non potest introire in regnum Dei

DRV
Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

NAB
5 Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

Not sure if the DRV is a better translation I personally like the DRV translation of the Bible. More or less they say the same thing.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

I think the clearest way to look at John 3:5 is to look at John 3:22. After this whole discussion, the action of Jesus and His disciples ought to speak volumes... they didn't run around saying "you have to born again by accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior"... they ran around baptizing.

[goldenchild17]

True true. I just thought the DRV made it clearer than other versions

Protestants all say that it's two different actions, birth then being born of the spirit. But this verse makes it clear that it is one action. Maybe I'll bring up this verse just to see what happens.

[phatcatholic]

there is simply no scriptural support for the water in question being amniotic fluid. that's just silly.

[goldenchild17]

I am going to post this as a rebuttal to that argument. Let me know what you think.
_____________________________

The key to understanding the passage is in verse 3. John 3:3 says:

[color=blue] "Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born 3 [b]from above[/b]." [/color] (NAB)

[color=blue] "Jesus answered him, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born [b]from above[/b]."[/color] (NRSV)

The greek here for "from above" is "anothen".

Anothen primarily means "from above" NOT "again".


Let's look at the passage verses 1-7 to understand what this means.

John 3:1-7
[color=blue] "Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. He came to Jesus at night and said to him, 'Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you are doing unless God is with him.' Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.' Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?' Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I told you, 'You must be born from above.'" [/color]

Let’s break it down. [color=blue] “Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. He came to Jesus at night and said to him, 'Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you are doing unless God is with him.' Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.'” [/color]

Nicodemus comes to Jesus and Jesus tells Him that no one can be saved unless he is born “from above” NOT “born again”.

[color=blue] “Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?'” [/color]

Nicodemus [b]misunderstands[/b] Jesus. He thinks Jesus is telling Him he needs to be born again. Jesus never said that.

[color=blue] “Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I told you, 'You must be born from above.'" [/color]

Here Jesus clarifies what He said. He doesn’t tell Nicodemus that he needs to be born again He says that he must be born “from above”. This is important because no where in the passage, no where, is Jesus referring to [b]two[/b] births. He only ever refers to [b]one[/b] birth. That birth is a [b]spiritual[/b] birth, and birth “from above”. This birth from above consists of water and the Holy Spirit. Besides the phrase “without being born of water and spirit” does not constitute two actions, it is one action, “born”, of two elements, “water” and “spirit”. If it had said something to the effect of “born of water and then also born of spirit” then there might be something to it, but it’s just not in the passage anywhere.

In closing, I want to present one reason why this holds up Scripturally.

St. Paul’s conversion.

Acts 22:16 [color=blue] “Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.' [/color]

Why is this baptism important? Because we all know that previous to this event(the baptism) Paul was personally converted by Christ Himself. Paul received all the belief he needed. He was ready to go and serve the Lord. Yet Christ told Paul to go to Ananias and to listen to him. So Paul went to Ananias and Ananias told Paul he needed to be baptized and have his sinned washed away. Paul was converted but he still needed to be “born from above”. If the water in John 3:5 only refers to the amniotic fluid and if that passage is commanding us to be born physically and also be born of the Spirit, if it was referring to two different births, then Paul would never have needed to be baptized. He was already born physically, and he definitely had faith. However, he needed to be born from above by water and the Holy Spirit. Amen.