Don John of Austria Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 23 2005, 11:35 AM']monarchy has the potential either to be the ABSOLUTE BEST or the ABSOLUTE WORST form of government. democracy is a muddled middle ground, it will never be the worst and as long as it remains accountable to the people (and thus remains democracy) it will never be the worst. I blame Henry VIII for the whole mess of it, 16th century english monks were on the verge of a huge industrial revolution until he ransacked them. we could have had a Industrial Christendom... that would've been so dope. the fall of England was the greatest tragedy of Christendom and even though they're basically the only monarchy remaining, it is also somewhat their fault that the entire monarchial system was not able to transition strongly into the modern world. [right][snapback]655709[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No Aloysius it is the absolute best form of government, which is why it is capable of doing so much harm when abused-- it is simply capable in a way that no other form of Government is.
Don John of Austria Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Pio Nono' date='Jul 23 2005, 09:33 AM']JMJ 7/23 - St. Apollinaris of Ravenna Though monarchy has its benefits, do we really want to return to the government that produced the Hundred Years' War, the Sicilian Vespers, and the Bulgarian Massacre (not to mention the American Revolution and French Revolution)? [right][snapback]655631[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes! I mean Democracy started World War II and the American the American Civil War for sure, I would argue it also caused WWI and numerous other wars. And the American Revolution wasn't caused by Monarchy but by those who rejected just Authority, Democrates I would point out, not Monarchist. I would argue that it is impossible to have a just Athority with a Democratic frame work. Edited July 23, 2005 by Don John of Austria
Aloysius Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jul 23 2005, 02:39 PM']No Aloysius it is the absolute best form of government, which is why it is capable of doing so much harm when abused-- it is simply capable in a way that no other form of Government is. [right][snapback]655843[/snapback][/right] [/quote] that's basically what I meant RandomProddy, Henry VIII destroyed the strong english monastic system. You would be very surprised to learn how advanced scientifically some of these were, they really were on the verge of an industrial revolution. If the industrial revolution would've happened in the sixteenth century during the height of monarchial systems, there is a good chance Europe would still have monarchies today.
RandomProddy Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 23 2005, 08:44 PM']RandomProddy, Henry VIII destroyed the strong english monastic system. [/quote] Whilst I'm not going to argue the finer points of this on this forum, needless to say my old school (with very close connections to the C of E) has a unique view on this. And i'm not going to claim that view was taught to me [quote]You would be very surprised to learn how advanced scientifically some of these were, they really were on the verge of an industrial revolution. If the industrial revolution would've happened in the sixteenth century during the height of monarchial systems, there is a good chance Europe would still have monarchies today. [right][snapback]655852[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Possibly, but then the democratic processes involved after the English Civil War, the repercussions of the Treaty of Westphalia and numerous other social upheavals and military actions contributed a lot to the rapidity of the Industrial Revolution. There are still quite a few monarchies in Europe btw. It's just none are even close to having the prestige.... Edited July 23, 2005 by RandomProddy
RandomProddy Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 [quote name='Cathurian' date='Jul 23 2005, 10:21 PM']All hail Liechtenstein and Monaco. [right][snapback]655938[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Ah, but Monaco is a principality not a kingdom
Pio Nono Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 JMJ 7/23 - St. Apollinaris of Ravenna Spain is still technically a kingdom...I shook the hand of the Crown Prince when I was in Santiago.
Don John of Austria Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 [quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jul 23 2005, 03:30 PM']Ah, but Monaco is a principality not a kingdom [right][snapback]655949[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Still a monarchy.
infinitelord1 Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 wasnt saddams regime basically a monarchy? Even though it was called a dictatorship.
RandomProddy Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 24 2005, 01:20 AM']wasnt saddams regime basically a monarchy? Even though it was called a dictatorship. [right][snapback]656066[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Why would a monarch have a republican guard?
Aloysius Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 [quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jul 23 2005, 02:55 PM']Whilst I'm not going to argue the finer points of this on this forum, needless to say my old school (with very close connections to the C of E) has a unique view on this. And i'm not going to claim that view was taught to me Possibly, but then the democratic processes involved after the English Civil War, the repercussions of the Treaty of Westphalia and numerous other social upheavals and military actions contributed a lot to the rapidity of the Industrial Revolution. There are still quite a few monarchies in Europe btw. It's just none are even close to having the prestige.... [right][snapback]655868[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I know... and the claim I am making is that if it weren't for the destruction of english monasteries where monks were making incredible advances the industrial revolution would've happened in the sixteenth or seventeenth century. How's that for rapidity of the industrial revolution?
Semperviva Posted July 24, 2005 Author Posted July 24, 2005 wow- the poll is split exactly in equal thirds 7 7 7 MUST BE A REALLY PERFECT NUMBER
jezic Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 there is a feast day of Christ the king and if he is king, i will support a monarchy anyday.
Oik Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 I clicked null vote. The third option is too general. As long as a ruler is just and moral and a Catholic (assentng,faithful). I however, think the type of government does matter. Centisimus Annus speaks about this. Socialism=No Communism=No Dictatorship=No Class system government=No Populist=No Corrupt Capitalism=No Anarchy=No (which is probably a Duh!) Monarchy would be fine as long as the ruler was moral and just (and some have been).
Aloysius Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 Oik, you grouped a lot of apples and oranges together there. some of those are economic systems, some of those are governmental systems.
scardella Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 Regarding the French Revolution, there's significant evidence that a lot of what we're taught about the French Revolution is, in fact, erroneous. There's a good book highlighting a good bit of this that I had to read for a French Rev. class. It's unfortunate that I don't still have the notes. It's called [i]The Guillotine and the Cross[/i] by Warren Carroll. Look it up, read it and be amazed...
Aloysius Posted July 26, 2005 Posted July 26, 2005 I like the idea of a private-sector-distributist (economically) monarchy (governmentally) with a strong, widespread, and influential squirearchy (influential over economics and government).
epinephrin Posted July 26, 2005 Posted July 26, 2005 [i]We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.[/i] - [b]John Adams, Oct.11, 1798[/b] [i] Address to the military [/i] The same problems with democracy are the same for monarchy. It's just that it's much easier to corrupt one man holding all the power. God rules very democratically. I don't see why we shouldn't try to fit his image.
Ellenita Posted July 26, 2005 Posted July 26, 2005 [quote]There are still quite a few monarchies in Europe btw.[/quote] Belgium, Holland and Norway for example...
toledo_jesus Posted July 26, 2005 Posted July 26, 2005 Monarchies are open to tyranny of the minority, republics tyranny of the majority. It would be just as bad to have the unwashed masses control a country as it would to have an Emperor Adolf with Lords Goehring, Himmler and Rommel strutting around. Strike a balance so that the power corrupts evenly across the social spectrum... Ultimately, human attempts at government will always be flawed. The only perfect system is one in which the Authority is unimpeachable in all things, and only One has that quality.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now