Charismatic Catholics

[DeeDee]

Are there any Charismatic Catholics on phasmass??? If there are how are you received in your parish church? We are sort of tolerated and then some :bugeyes: I think for the most part people just don't understand charismatics. They are reminded of Pentecostals, or the "Holy Rollers" of old, and don't get it. I think the Holy Spirit is the most misunderstood of the Trinity, and people are too skeptical to do a little research and find out. Find out what they are missing, that is. All we do in our prayer meetings is praise God in song and prayer. What could be so difficult about understanding that? But we rarely get any new members, even though there are flyers about the group all over the church. Please let me know how things are going at your church if you are a Charismatic Catholic.

[phatcatholic]

you'll probably get more of a response about this over in open mic, so i'm going to move this over there for ya

[Brother Adam]

Well DeeDee,

I'm not a charasmatic, but I go to probably the most charasmatic university in the country so it is unavoidable. Perhaps I can offer some insight into how others see charasmatics.

Tonight was a good example. We had the start of our Applied Biblical Studies conference here at the university, and the music for the start is always loud and there is always the typical hand waving. Many of us have been brought up to worship God in a very quiet and reverant way. That isn't that we don't like to sing, and I believe many praise songs are very beautiful, but many of us are uncomfortable "Shouting to the North and the South". To raise our hands or dance around while praising God is not how we grow in intimacy with God in worship. At most charasmatic services we feel very pressured to praise God in this way, and that we are doing something wrong if we fold our hands in front of us and sing.

Also, I believe it makes many people weary because charasmatic worship does not simply stop at lifting your hands to praise music, but there are also the 'gifts of the spirit' especially tongues and resting in the Spirit that are uncomfortable. These practices are not rooted in Catholic Tradition and derive directly from Protestant Pentacostal Services (See "A Key to Catholic Charasmatics", and "A History of the Catholic Charasmatic Movement).

I don't know that non-Charasmatics don't understand the Holy Spirit, but perhaps both non-Charasmatics and Charasmatics place the Holy Spirit in a box and determine that He will only work through people in a particular way. I sense the Holy Spirits presence very strongly in the religious on campus and try to pray near them at mass. I sense the Holy Spirit in my own life when I am at mass and adoration. I regularly pray to the Holy Spirit, but I do not do so in a modern 'charasmatic' sense. I also believe the Holy Spirit is working through and has a place in the movement and He is doing wonderful things by people designated to be charasmatic Christians.

I hope this helps some. I also think it is important to distinguish that the Catholic Church has a long standing relationship with the Holy Spirit and the charisms of the Spirit through Saints and Mystics in the Church without necessarily being charasmatic. It's important that we learn from each other. Thanks for bringing this discussion up.

[Guest Eremite]

I remember the first and only Lifeteen Mass I've ever been too. The parish had just started the program, and so they had the Lifeteen Mass on Sunday nights. I sat there stone faced the whole time while everyone whooped it up.

I'm no holy roller, that's for sure.

[CD2008]

i walked into a lifeteen mass without knowing it on a sunday afternoon when i was like 11 and i was completely weirded out
i saw like all the parents doin the hand motions and everything....but wat was realllllly weird was when some of the teens came up on the alter during the consecration!!! but it was realllly weird i seriously hope most lifeteen masses rnt lk that


-Chris

[Brother Adam]

Well, the 'end all' of the charasmatic movement does not end in the Life Teen program, as it is, that is merely a program for youth. And yes there were abuses, and the LifeTeen program as a whole has reformed, especially in regards to the mass.

But you know what is really weird - to see catechatical directors and diocesian leaders, and not to mention bishops and people in their 70's and 80's raising their hands and bouncing around.

Edited July 28, 2005 by Brother Adam

[Paladin D]

I don't have a problem with charismatic Catholics, I believe the movement bears a lot of good fruit, just have to becareful with the terminology and some of the theological issues. With me, I'm just naturally am reverent and reserved, but sometimes I do feel the urge to be more expressive or whatever you would call it. You can say that my family is more on the charismatic side, but they deeply appreciate the reverence and reservement of a typical mass. They're more 50/50 I suppose (while I'm 75/25).

[Honour]

There is a charisamatic prayer meeting at the church close to my house...I want to check it out.....the one thing I miss most about protestant churches is the praise and worship. I completely respect liturgy and see that as the most appropriate way to worship as a whole church. But the idea of having supplemental worship....where there is a total freedom of worship.....I like it.

Br. Adam, I think that its a lot easier to stand still when everyone else is jumping around and waving their hands, than it is to even lift your hands when everyone else is standing still. I think there is a time and place for this kind of worship.
Of course...this is all based on my protestant beleifs, I'm just glad there is something I can possibly relate to more. I am going to check it out.

[Oik]

I agree with Bro. Adam.

We even go to the same University!


My experience with the Charismatic movement is directly related to LifeTeen and Saint Timothy's in Mesa (LT's birth-parish).


While I am very critical of certain liturgical "expressions" that seem to be conincidentaly (sp) found in about every Charismatic leaning Mass or parish, I have had many fond memories, friends, and experiences with Charismatics.


I'm like Adam, I don't consider myself a Charismatic (or a Traditionalist). We have a similiar experience with the Holy Spirit (adoration, at Mass, in the quiet/Sacred Silence).


The times I have felt the Holy Spirit burning in my heart the most is during the Consecreation at Mass, when the Priest elevates the Body of Chirst and the Chalice of Christ's Blood.


Also in quiet adoration or certain intense times of personal prayer.

My most intense experience of the Holy Spirit came once just recently when I had attended Mass at the Miles Jesu Mission in Phoenix, Az. It was before the final prayer and after Communion.

The priest, Father Feockler always gives a little time for personal quiet prayer (about 4-5mins).

I tell you, I always since then, remember that and try to open myself even greater since then.

[CanCath]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Jul 28 2005, 12:47 AM']just have to becareful with the terminology and some of the theological issues.[right][snapback]661994[/snapback][/right]
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No sure what you mean by that.... Could you clarify?

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Jul 28 2005, 12:47 AM']With me, I'm just naturally am reverent and reserved, but sometimes I do feel the urge to be more expressive or whatever you would call it.  You can say that my family is more on the charismatic side, but they deeply appreciate the reverence and reservement of a typical mass.  They're more 50/50 I suppose (while I'm 75/25).
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I think it is unfair to say the Charismatic worship is less reverent than non-charismatic Worship.

I've been to Mass at a church in Ottawa that is very charismatic (encourages outloud spontaneous praises at various parts during the Mass, including praying in tongues among other things). The Mass is celebrated with the outmost reverence. And the preists at this Church are completely inline with the Church and teach their parishoners how to grow in holiness better than any other priests I have met.

[hopeful1]

my parish's new pastor was the charismatic movement laison for my dioscese- AND he's the most traditional priest i know. he wants to bring back more of the traditional/latin music with our chior and do more masses with incense. we're seeing more boys as alter servers and they're kneeling in front of the alter now, they don't hold hands for the our father, and they're wearing their cassocks now for the youth liturgy. he's awesome!

[Ash Wednesday]

I can respect what good charismatic movements have brought to the Church.

As for me, I'm a quiet, bells n' smells mumbler, myself. :

[DeeDee]

Thanks everyone for your neat responses. We don't do much arm-waving and such at our prayer group, but we have a great praise and worship song book with a lot of high-spirited songs, some of which I hear on the Christian rock stations, like "Lord I lift your name on high" and "Shout to the Lord."

The Charismatic conventions in Calif., twice a year, are spectacular. Nothing like being with 8000 people at a charismatic mass celebrated by the bishop, or one we had last year (maybe 2 years ago?) with Fr. Stan Fortuna. He is so cool!

Charismatic prayer is just another form of worship, no greater or less than any other. God hears all prayers. I like what St. Paul had to say about praying in the spirit. If there is a prayer goup in your area check it out at least once. Then, if you don't like it, at least you'll have tried it once.

[Luthien]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Jul 29 2005, 02:26 AM']I can respect what good charismatic movements have brought to the Church.

As for me, I'm a quiet, bells n' smells mumbler, myself.      :
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Im a little of both. I do sometimes (not during the liturgy), lift my arms out like Im receiving a hug, and just sing my heart out. But I also love quiet meditation, chant, and incense. I like to see myself as a happy medium.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='CanCath' date='Jul 28 2005, 10:52 PM']No sure what you mean by that.... Could you clarify?[/quote]

I understand what [b]"Baptism of the Holy Spirit"[/b] means, but the terminology is deceiving, that's the only one I can think of.


[quote]I think it is unfair to say the Charismatic worship is less reverent than non-charismatic Worship.

I've been to Mass at a church in Ottawa that is very charismatic (encourages outloud spontaneous praises at various parts during the Mass, including praying in tongues among other things). The Mass is celebrated with the outmost reverence. And the preists at this Church are completely inline with the Church and teach their parishoners how to grow in holiness better than any other priests I have met.
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I mistakenly used "reverent" to refer to "reserved". Sorry about that. But again, I am a supporter of the charismatic movement, I just don't consider myself a full-blown charismatic myself that's all.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Luthien' date='Jul 29 2005, 12:25 PM']Im a little of both. I do sometimes (not during the liturgy), lift my arms out like Im receiving a hug, and just sing my heart out. But I also love quiet meditation, chant, and incense. I like to see myself as a happy medium. 
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I'm like her.

[dspen2005]

when and how did this movement begin? i have the impression that it was heavily influenced by the Prot notion of charismaticism

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='DeeDee' date='Jul 29 2005, 11:15 AM']Thanks everyone for your neat responses. We don't do much arm-waving and such at our prayer group, but we have a great praise and worship song book with a lot of high-spirited songs, some of which I hear on the Christian rock stations, like "Lord I lift your name on high" and "Shout to the Lord."

The Charismatic conventions in Calif., twice a year, are spectacular. Nothing like being with 8000 people at a charismatic mass celebrated by the bishop, or one we had last year (maybe 2 years ago?) with Fr. Stan Fortuna. He is so cool!

Charismatic prayer is just another form of worship, no greater or less than any other. God hears all prayers. I like what St. Paul had to say about praying in the spirit. If there is a prayer goup in your area check it out at least once. Then, if you don't like it, at least you'll have tried it once.  
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same here

i love those songs

the prayer group that i was in was charismatic

my family is charismatic