anyone to refute this?

[musturde]

[color=red]The pro and con religion debate may be of a particular interest to everyone in this day and age; but it seems to hurt the feelings of most religious people profoundly. So many may think it's time to put the cards on the table and answer a very important question which is called for; Why do people need religion so much, and hold on to their dear beliefs so tight after all? Why are they so dear?
Yes, the suspicious and inquisitive people are asking YOU in particular, because not only do you believe in an invisible man who magically [...Edited by Botrys... Use acceptable words in refering to God's actions...] out the universe, you also excoriate and marginalize those who disagree.

Let's take a look in that deep, depressed and forgotten cave of yours; and we will find a couple of possible reasons:

* You need to believe in an afterlife ("Does everything just end when I die ?? No, I must live for eternity.")

* You have emotional attachments to people around you ("I must be able to meet and live with those who died before me again in the afterlife. I must be able to see those whom I care for again")

* You want revenge ("A vermin creature who has done me great harm, like a politician for example, might get away in this life without punishment, and we might not be able to or be willing to do anything about it, but he'll sure burn in hell !!")

* You need an excuse for not doing/not being capable of doing certain things ("As a good religious person, I must not seek revenge against those who have hurt me! I play it safe in life because I am a "good" person! I must not have sex before marriage, because that's against my beliefs! etc, etc!"

* You live more comfortably by abiding by certain rules that are written in stone, which have descended from the lap of a supreme being. ("I know what I must do to live "rightly" in this life, and I know what I must expect from everyone else, and everything I do to uphold this is justified!")

* You exhibit human vanity ("It is an exaggeration to say that we and everything we know is a tiny not-even-a-fraction of a speck in an almost infinite ocean. We are even less significant, in a universe that has existed billions and billions of years before us and will still exist for billions more long after out pathetic little planet is wiped out from the face of the galaxy; but God really cares about and is watching every thing I do here, and meddles in every petty detail of my life; sometimes even giving me a boost when I behave, and sometimes punishing me when I'm naughty")

* You, as a somehow poor, weak or miserable person or someone who lacks fulfillment in life, become more religious and needy of more dogma (I may be suffering in this life, but I'll surely have my reward in the next! At the same time, as I am looking at those who are better off, I feel a certain comfort in being among the "righteous ones"... they may be better off now but we are the righteous ones- with an eternal reward waiting for us!") Napoleon Bonaparte did say, after all, 'religion is the only thing that keeps the poor from murdering all the rich...'

* You need to justify your existence, and you are lazy. ”What am I doing here? Who am I?" etc. Religious dogma might provide you with easy "answers". You may have a creeping suspicion from time to time that they might not be the right ones, but you are too lazy to think about it. Or too afraid of what you might find out. At any rate, you think you're better off "not knowing" or accepting what you already think you "know".

* You are a homo sapiens (A very superstitious animal!)


I dare you to try to rebut any of the points above.
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[musturde]

I already found some errors in his comments.

[peach_cube]

Anyway just for fun.
[color=red]* You are 17 and think you understand human nature based on your limited life experience[/color]

Without God...

* You believe that anything you do actually matters at all. Ultimately everything done will be lost, forgotten, and with no chance of recovery. Might as well go jump off a bridge...

* I will not see anyone again. They do not matter. Only I matter.

* Those who suffer in this life suffer in vain. Those who mistreat others (polpot, stalin, hitler) have no consequences. Actions have no consequences [Besides as a counterpoint we ask God to "forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us". Therefore, if we cannot forgive, we shall not be forgiven]

* You need an excuse for doing certain things. There is no God, therefore I do what I want.

* You live more comfortably by ignoring any morals that might make life difficult for you. Don't want to raise a child? Abort it. Don't want to defend this country? Run from it.

* You exhibit vanity. You care only for yourself. The ultimate self love.

* Lack of belief in God is all that keeps the Rich from helping the poor.
[Quite an assumption to say that all religious are miserable. Yet religious have lower rates of depression and suicide, also they live longer. ]

* You think there is no reason for existance, you are lazy. Caring only for yourself you deny the world around you because it means that YOU would have to change. YOU might have to give pleasures and comforts of your life. Without God, YOU do only what pleases you.

* You are a homo sapien. A "Thinking Man". Start thinking.

You are not invincible. Self centered egotism will leave you empty and alone.

----

Anyway, this kid has nothing. He is obviously jaded, perhaps due to a nagging on his conscience that has slowly turned to anger toward anything that might reactivate that conscience. He needs to be shown love. His has a bitter view toward religious, in that he most likely sees them as being hypocritical. Message boards make it easy to hide feelings and disengage any empathetic human responses. Plant seeds. He is very prideful and will not give any indication that he has doubt. Good luck.

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

[quote]You want revenge ("A vermin creature who has done me great harm, like a politician for example, might get away in this life without punishment, and we might not be able to or be willing to do anything about it, but he'll sure burn in hell !!")[/quote]

Of course Christian's believe in Justice...for God is just. But it is not our judgement to say what is just for one in the afterlife... God is the Ultimate judge of that. Even the Church teaches that we should pray for those who persecute us, not that they suffer in Hell, but that they may experience the Beatific vision.

These 'assumptions' as to why man "[i]needs[/i]" a religion are not accurate based on Christian beliefs, thus making invalid assumptions, not even applicable to Christians.

Man does not "NEED a religion yo HOLD ON TO"... This gentleman is making religion out to be a man made ideal. Something man invented to give security, to take away fear, to use as an excuse for failure. When it is really Faith, Hope, and Love that causes a man to not fear death, that gives man the ability to forgive his persecutor and not condemn him.

"Our hearts are restless until the rest in You O Lord." ~ St. Augustine


Totus Tuus,
Andrew Joseph Jaeger

[musturde]

Thnx Peach and Fiat, those replies reallyhelped. :

[musturde]

btw i hate really strict forums lol.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='musturde' date='Aug 6 2005, 11:40 AM'][color=red]
I dare you to try to rebut any of the points above.
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ROTFLOL!!!! That last line almost put me to tears! haha...

We've been "dared". hehehe.. oh my.. sheesh.

ok.. I'm better now.

There is much in the way of refutation in the pagan philosophers alone, from Socrates to Seneca. But I suppose the better place to go for a solid slam dance would be the staggering deposit of wisdom contained in the 2,000 year Catholic tradition. There is quite a juicy selection, from ancient to modern, saints and sinners; from Augustine to Anselm, Scotus to Seifert, Copleston to Congar, Cajetan to Clarke, Maritain to Marcel, from Newman to Knox, Ponty to Pieper, Danielou to De Lubac, Von Hildebrand to Von Balthasar...

I didn't notice a single statement in that fellows post that hasn't been refuted time and time again. He seems to think that religious people are mindless idiots.. kind of sad really.

When I consider the surface I've managed to scratch, of the great mountain of Catholic insight, I'm actually a bit embarrassed for the guy.

[Anastasia13]

I've been meaning to come back and comment on a reply here. I think peach_cube gave a great answer and showed a lot or wisdom in it.