Question on Council of Florence

[Fearful 1]

Protestant question again...he wants to know how we can reconcile this statement from the Council of Florence, with the Catholic Church's current position that Protestants can be saved.

He quoted me this:

"so what about the Council of Florence? "

" It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives" Paragraph 14 Session 11 Council of Florence"

[phatcatholic]

it all hinges on what "outside the catholic church" means. the Church has always understood protestants to have an imperfect union w/ the Church. so, they would not be "outside." this statement from the council of florence, then, is perfectly reconcilable w/ what the Church has always taught and continues to teach.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

The Protestants must be invincibly ignorant of the truth of Catholicism. Pope Eugene IV lists the people he is talking to in that statement, and they aren't ignorant.

[Fearful 1]

Is there anyplace I can find this paragraph documented and any official explanation of its meaning and ramifications...I'm really having trouble with this one. I appreciate your help...Thank you.

[Era Might]

[quote]The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

--Letter of the Holy Office under Pope Pius XII to Cardinal Cushing, correcting some errors of the Feenyites

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFFEENY.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFFEENY.HTM[/url][/quote]

It is true that anyone outside of the Church cannot be saved, as Florence notes. However, as we see here, incorporation into the Church does not always require actual incorporation, but can be accomplished through an "implicit desire".

This has always been the understanding of the Church. Note that she has never pronounced on the damnation of any man, even when it was a known fact that the person was never a baptised Catholic. The principle goes back to St. Paul's teaching regarding the pagans, who, though ignorant of the law, live up to its demands by doing their best with the light of grace and reason.

Only God can judge a person's heart, and their cooperation with his grace. As Catholics, we must bear witness to the fullness of truth that has been handed on to us, and leave it up to Christ to judge whether a person has obstinately persisted in error, or was innocently misled.

Edited August 11, 2005 by Era Might

[phatcatholic]

good post era might, welcome to the apo board!

[Fearful 1]

In the above statement I quoted from the Council of Florence, would the Eastern Orthodox Church also be the included as the "schismatics" that this statement was referring to?