JPII IS VENERABLE

[Semperviva]

...POPE BENEDICT XVI DECLARED THE 3 MIRACLES had occured YESTERDAY And made JP II venerable?? i heard from my passtor????

Edited August 11, 2005 by Semperviva

[Old_Joe]

[quote name='Semperviva' date='Aug 10 2005, 07:07 PM']...POPE BENEDICT XVI DECLARED THE 3 MIRACLES had occured YESTERDAY And made JP II venerable?? i heard from my passtor????
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[/quote]

Yay! :

What are the miracles?

Edited August 11, 2005 by Old_Joe

[Semperviva]

i am so surprised no-one else posted this LOL

[sweetpea316]

woohoo!

[prose]

Are you sure? I haven't heard anything and I can't find it anywhere online..

I hope so...

I DID find that he may be declared a martyr...

Edited August 11, 2005 by prose

[Era Might]

A martyr?

He died of natural causes.

[Old_Joe]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Aug 10 2005, 07:21 PM']A martyr?

He died of natural causes.
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They're saying the assassination attempt compromised his health.

[Era Might]

LOL.

That's a stretch if I ever heard of one.

He died almost 25 years after he was shot...

[Aloysius]

he won't be declared a martyr. if he was declared a martyr, that would be a sad day for the church as they would be lowering the requirements for martyrdom to ridiculous levels.

anyway, he won't. that's just a silly rumor going around.

martyrdom is when you are killed specifically for the faith. John Paul II was shot by a madman for his political interference in communism and died two decades later of a urinary tract infection.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote]John Paul II could be declared a martyr
[url="http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-07-01-sainthood_x.htm"]http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-07...sainthood_x.htm[/url]

ROME (AP) — Vatican officials no longer are dismissing outright the notion that Pope John Paul II could be declared a martyr, a step that could remove the need for a confirmed miracle to beatify the late pontiff and make it easier for him to become a saint.
Cardinal Jose Saraiva Martins, prefect of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, said Friday it was up to groups of theological experts to decide if the May 13, 1981, attempt on John Paul's life — as well as his long, public suffering before he died — warranted a declaration of martyrdom.

"In a technical, theological, juridical and canonical sense, the martyr gives his life for the faith," Saraiva Martins said in response to questions at a news conference, according to the Apcom news agency.

"We have to verify the motive for the attempt on the life of (Karol) Woytyla. And this will be the work of theologians."

Ever since Pope Benedict XVI announced May 13 that he was putting John Paul on the fast track to be beatified, questions have swirled about whether he could be declared a martyr. Doing so would remove the need for the Vatican to confirm that a miracle attributed to his intercession had occurred after his April 2 death — a necessary step for beatification.

The Vatican would still need to confirm that a miracle occurred after his beatification for John Paul to be declared a saint.

Church officials had initially rejected outright any suggestion that the 1981 assassination attempt could be the basis for a martyrdom declaration since John Paul lived for almost another 24 years.

They also noted that other candidates for beatification and sainthood had also suffered ordinary illnesses at the end of their lives but were not declared martyrs.

John Paul suffered from Parkinson's disease for many years. According to his death certificate, he died of blood poisoning and the collapse of his blood vessels after suffering from organ failure brought on by a urinary tract infection.

However, Cardinal Camillo Ruini appeared to have been setting the stage for a possible martyrdom declaration Tuesday when he formally opened the beatification cause for John Paul.

During his remarks at the end of the service, Ruini said there was a "decisive" link between John Paul and Jesus Christ based on blood.

"John Paul truly spilled his blood in St. Peter's Square on May 13, 1981, and then again, not just his blood but he offered his life during the long years of his illness," Ruini said.

"In the end, his suffering and his death, his silent blessing from his window at the end of Easter Mass, were for all of humanity an extraordinary and efficient testimony of Jesus Christ killed and resurrected, of the Christian significance of suffering, death and the force of salvation.

"The days of his funeral became for Rome and the world days of extraordinary unity, reconciliation and opening of the soul to God," Ruini said.

John Paul beatified and canonized hundreds of martyrs during his 26-year papacy. In fact, of the 1,338 people he beatified, 1,032 were martyrs. Of the 482 people he elevated to sainthood, 480 were martyrs.

One of the people he canonized was Maximilian Kolbe, a Polish priest who traded his life for that of a married man at Auschwitz in 1941. He was beatified under normal procedures in 1971. John Paul canonized him in 1982, announcing that he would be venerated as a martyr.

At the time some theologians questioned the move, since Kolbe didn't strictly die for the church. Experts have raised similar questions concerning the case of John Paul, since some say the 1981 assassination attempt was provoked by John Paul's support of the Solidarity labor movement battling the communist government in his native Poland. That would make the motive of the gunman political, rather than religious.[/quote]

[Aloysius]

I saw that artical. It would be a serious error to lower the bar for martyrdom to this.

[geetarplayer]

I agree. It would compromise the integrity of sainthood and martyrdom. People are just being too jumpy. We all know JPII will be declared a saint sooner or later. Patience is a virtue!

-Mark

[let_go_let_God]

Martyrdom is a beautiful giving of ones self totaly for God, by giving of ones life in sacrifice and taken by someone else. Although JPII fully gave of his life for the church but his life wasn't taken by someone else.

I don't know if I've made much sense, but that was the best way I could say it.

God bless-
LGLG

[zabbazooey]

Just be patient!!!!!

[picchick]

wait wait wait....

I thought that this process couldn't happen for at least three years. It hasn't even been that yet. They can't start it can they?

[Lounge Daddy]

I think the Catholic Church has a longstanding reputation of being far from “jumpy.”
Patience is a good idea – it will be a long while before a final decision is made on sainthood… although watching the process is incredibly interesting.
Prayer is also a good idea – both for those discerning the sainthood of JPG and for us to – if not understand – but to at least accept…

[Socrates]

One need not be a martyr to be a saint. I agree the "martyrdom" thing seems a case of "jumpines."

[Aloysius]

[quote name='picchick' date='Aug 10 2005, 10:19 PM']wait wait wait....

I thought that this process couldn't happen for at least three years.  It hasn't even been that yet.  They can't start it can they?
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they suspended the rule in this specific case. I personally don't think that was wise because the whole reason for that rule was to prevent media technology from skewing the view of popular causes (i.e. making it easier for someone to have a popular cause than back before television)... considering JPII made such good use of mass-media technology, I think he is the perfect case to apply the three year rule to. ah well...

[jmjtina]

*prays for the intercession of my late papa* :

[StColette]

Speaking about martyrdom, you must remember that there are types of martyrdom. Like Our Lady is called Queen of Martyrs because of the martyrdom that she suffered at the cross. Bl. Kateri is also considered a White Martyr. White martyrdom consists in a man's abandoning everything for God's sake.