devils remorse ?

[Guest]

This is probally in the wrong phorum, considering i think i know the answer to the question and there really isnt much to debate. Although im pretty stupid........So does the devil have any remorse at all ? Satan is fully aware that he is going to hell and that hell is the worst place to ever be right ?
Does he ever have feelings of regret and the desire at all to want to repent........Now I know its irrelevent since he cant repent and is destined to burn forever but does he still have any thoughts of what a life with God could be like ?? Or does the devil desire to be in hell thinking that hell will be a heaven of sorts for him, since he desires everything that God is agaisnt..........I roll my eyez at him becuz I know that burning forever in a lake can not be desired by anyone but let him have his crazy ideas i guess....

And did satan know from the very begging that he would go to hell ??
Did God create him knowing this ??

Edited August 16, 2005 by Guest

[Socrates]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' date='Aug 16 2005, 02:09 PM']This is probally in the wrong phorum, considering i think i know the answer to the question and there really isnt much to debate. Although im pretty stupid........So does the devil have any remorse at all ?  Satan is fully aware that he is going to hell and that hell is the worst place to ever be right ?
Does he ever have feelings of regret and the desire at all to want to repent........Now I know its irrelevent since he cant repent and is destined to burn forever but does he still have any thoughts of what a life with God could be like ??    Or does the devil desire to be in hell thinking that hell will be a heaven of sorts for him, since he desires everything that God is agaisnt..........I roll my eyez at him becuz I know that burning forever in a lake can not be desired by anyone but let him have his crazy ideas i guess....

And did satan know from the very begging that he would go to hell ??
Did God create him knowing this ??
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Angels (pure spirit) don't exist in time the same way we humans do, so they cannot make a series of choices or "change their minds" the way humans can. This is difficult to understand, but theologians deal with this and have called "angel time" aeveternity. Basically, angels make only one act of the will, either for or against God.

[popestpiusx]

Socrates is essentially correct. It is not possible for Satan to have remorse because that would require a change in his will which is not possible. He (and all souls in hell) only experience hate and contempt for Who and what they have freely rejected.

[popestpiusx]

As to your other questions:

Satan did not know that he would be damned from the beginning, but did know what the consequences were. The interesting question is, what does "from the beginning" mean within the context of aeveternity.

Second, did God know? God knew what the decisions would be of the beings He had 'decided' to create.

[Guest]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Aug 16 2005, 10:18 PM']Second, did God know?  God knew what the decisions would be of the beings He had 'decided' to create.
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thats wut i find difficult to comprehend
why did God create him knowing what he would do
or was it in LOVE that he created satan hopeing that someway he would not go the route he did
but then
i find it difficult for God to have to hope for anything

Edited August 18, 2005 by Guest

[Anthony]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Aug 16 2005, 08:20 PM']Angels (pure spirit) don't exist in time the same way we humans do, so they cannot make a series of choices or "change their minds" the way humans can.  This is difficult to understand, but theologians deal with this and have called "angel time" aeveternity.  Basically, angels make only one act of the will, either for or against God.
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I don't know if I completely agree with this because before Satan lead the revolt against God, he shared in the glory of God in heaven. I might be mistaken, but didn't God also give the angels in heaven the free will to choose to follow or reject Him as He gave us (the members of the Church militant). Maybe this could open a discussion because I could be wrong.

I guess what I am saying is that God is an all loving God. He loves us infinitely but He does not force His love upon us. He gives us the choice to choose Him or reject him. I think that that's the beauty behind the mystery of God

Anthony

[Socrates]

[quote name='Anthony' date='Aug 20 2005, 02:44 PM']I don't know if I completely agree with this because before Satan lead the revolt against God, he shared in the glory of God in heaven.  I might be mistaken, but didn't God also give the angels in heaven the free will to choose to follow or reject Him as He gave us (the members of the Church militant).  Maybe this could open a discussion because I could be wrong.

I guess what I am saying is that God is an all loving God.  He loves us infinitely but He does not force His love upon us.  He gives us the choice to choose Him or reject him.  I think that that's the beauty behind the mystery of God

Anthony
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Satan and the other fallen angels did not share in the Beatific Vision (of the full glory of God) before the Fall. They had knowledge of God, but did not fully share in His Glory. They were given given a test at their creation in which they were free to choose or reject God.

We humans cannot really fully understand angelic nature, so the story of the fall is often told in terms more understandable to human beings.

[avemaria40]

God knows what will happen, but it doesn't affect our free will, kind of like if u had to pick either chocolate cake or liver & onions, ur parents would know u'd pick the chocolate cake, but u can still decide which one u want. Also, the devil has no remorse, and neither does any spirit who lives in Hell. They chose it and once u die and are judged, it's too late to change ur mind. the devil and his angels, though they did not die or be judged, decided to go against God and they hate Him so they feel no remorse

[Winchester]

Satan feels no remorse for his evil. He's totally commited to his wrong decision.

That's why he's called the Prince of Lawyers.

[Guest]

is the devil in heaven right now ??
cuz revelations says he will bring war to heaven
so like....wuts going on right now in heaven
it is the old heaven right now right ?

[DeeDee]

[quote name='Winchester' date='Aug 21 2005, 09:30 PM']Satan feels no remorse for his evil. He's totally commited to his wrong decision.

That's why he's called the Prince of Lawyers.
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I'm going to tell all my lawyer friends about this!

[Guest JeffCR07]

The Father of Scholasticism teaches that the Devil cannot repent, nor even show remorse, because his Fall was complete, and resulted in not simply the loss of justice, but also the loss of his will-for-justice. Thus, the Devil has only a will for pleasure, and cannot will for what is just. Remorse, however, is an operation of the will-for-justice, not the will-for-pleasure, and as such the Devil cannot feel remorse for his Fall, nor repent the decision.

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff

[Guest]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Aug 25 2005, 01:20 PM']The Father of Scholasticism teaches that the Devil cannot repent, nor even show remorse, because his Fall was complete, and resulted in not simply the loss of justice, but also the loss of his will-for-justice. Thus, the Devil has only a will for pleasure, and cannot will for what is just. Remorse, however, is an operation of the will-for-justice, not the will-for-pleasure, and as such the Devil cannot feel remorse for his Fall, nor repent the decision.

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff
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Wuts up Jeff ??
thanks bro !!

[RC_]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Aug 16 2005, 10:14 PM']Socrates is essentially correct.  It is not possible for Satan to have remorse because that would require a change in his will which is not possible.  He (and all souls in hell) only experience hate and contempt for Who and what they have freely rejected.
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They will be cast out into the darkness, and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[DeeDee]

Wasn't the "revolt" against God based on some of the angels refusing to acknowledge God's love for created human beings, and Lucifer (the Light Bearer) was one of these angels who was banished to Earth? There is a difference between Satan and Lucifer, but I'm not sure of the difference. Who is the banished spirit that rules the world, as Jesus said in the gospels -John 14:30?

[Guest JeffCR07]

Lucifer as a proper name does not refer exclusively to Satan, or the Devil, as it simply means "Light-Bearer." However, the name has been attributed to Satan as he was the greatest of all created angels, and, in common usage, "Lucifer" and "Satan" are one.

Also, the fall of the angels in Heaven predates the creation of mankind, and therefore did not occur on account of humanity. Rather, Satan and all the fallen angels made and independent choice to cast aside their will-for-justice in favor of exclusively a will-for-pleasure.

In Christ,

Jeff

[White Knight]

Never mind.

Edited September 3, 2005 by White Knight

[Socrates]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Sep 2 2005, 06:47 PM']Lucifer as a proper name does not refer exclusively to Satan, or the Devil, as it simply means "Light-Bearer." However, the name has been attributed to Satan as he was the greatest of all created angels, and, in common usage, "Lucifer" and "Satan" are one.

Also, the fall of the angels in Heaven predates the creation of mankind, and therefore did not occur on account of humanity. Rather, Satan and all the fallen angels made and independent choice to cast aside their will-for-justice in favor of exclusively a will-for-pleasure.

In Christ,

Jeff
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[/quote]

The exact reason or reasons for the angel's rebellion is not exactly known, but is in the realm of speculation. While it was before the creation of man, the angels could have very well been given knowledge of God's plan for humanity. It is often speculated that the rebellion was based on knowledge of the Incarnation, the prideful angels refusing to worship a "lower" creature.

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 2 2005, 07:11 PM']The exact reason or reasons for the angel's rebellion is not exactly known, but is in the realm of speculation.  While it was before the creation of man, the angels could have very well been given knowledge of God's plan for humanity.  It is often speculated that the rebellion was based on knowledge of the Incarnation, the prideful angels refusing to worship a "lower" creature.
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Socrates, do you have any writings of any Saints/etc which explain the Fall in this way? While I have heard it said that the Fall occurred on account of pride, I have only heard of it in the context of a desire to be like, or equal to, God. I have never heard of any discussion which accounts for the Fall by claiming specifically that it was the Incarnation that was rejected by the angels.

I tend to like Anselm's explaination much more than Aquinas', but I would be very interested to read a different explaination such as the one you have found.

In Christ,

Jeff

[Guest]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 2 2005, 07:11 PM']The exact reason or reasons for the angel's rebellion is not exactly known........[right][snapback]709099[/snapback][/right]
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i heard it was because Jesus was so incredibly good looking