Murder and Killing A huge Difference between them.

[White Knight]

Murder: Pre-meditated, attentional, reasons, anger, revenge, hatred toward someone, and who wants to just litterally destroy another person by murdering them.


Killing: Can be a act of self defence, unattentional (usually); can be done as a offer to save ones life, a love one and/or a friend from death, and is usually done out of ignorance. You can kill a dear on the road, by mistake, same with a human being, that doesn't make them murders, but rather killers, who had no attention of harming another person or animal. but ended up taking the victims life anyway.. ([b]Thats not murder, thats killing)[/b]

Two Soliders are placed in a situation, where they have to take the enemy out or be taken out by the enemy. what are they to do? they are forced to rid of them (their enemies); to save their own lifes so they do not die. [b]"but they do not do it out of anger or revenge usually, however it can lead to that, not always but sometimes.)"[/b]


So with how greyuped this issue is, and reguardless with how many people see Murder and killing as the samething. Sould Killing and Murdering be in two differnt fields?

Murder is always attentional/Pre-meditated.

Killing can be alittle harder to explain.


The Commandment that states [b]"Thou Shall not Murder" [/b] one of the Ten Commandments, is ofend misunderstood.

[Birgitta Noel]

I heard a priest explain once that the commandment is actually more properly translated as "Thou shall not bushwhack!" That definitely clears up the acceptability of killing under certain circumstances.

By the way WK, the word you're looking for is unintentional, not unattentional.

On a legal level there are different degrees of murder, manslaughter, etc.

Often people say that murder is unjustified killing, but that leaves some situations out, ie ones where "he just needed killin'"!

Killing is acceptable, but under limited circumstances. As in all things the act must be understood in the context of the teachings of the Church, not in a vacuum.

[track2004]

I'd go with the murder is always killing but killing isn't always murder.

Murder is a type of killing, like WK said, the thought out a bit kind. Killing is just causing a death, any death, for any reason.

[White Knight]

[quote name='track2004' date='Aug 19 2005, 03:38 AM']I'd go with the murder is always killing but killing isn't always murder. 

Murder is a type of killing, like WK said, the thought out a bit kind.  Killing is just causing a death, any death, for any reason.
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Killing and Murdering are two different methods, yet lead to the same result, the victim always ends up dead.

[dspen2005]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Aug 19 2005, 02:02 AM']Murder: Pre-meditated, attentional, reasons, anger, revenge, hatred toward someone, and who wants to just litterally destroy another person by murdering them.
Killing: Can be a act of self defence, unattentional (usually); can be done as a offer to save ones life, a love one and/or a friend from death, and is usually done out of ignorance. You can kill a dear on the road, by mistake, same with a human being, that doesn't make them murders, but rather killers, who had no attention of harming another person or animal. but ended up taking the victims life anyway.. ([b]Thats not murder, thats killing)[/b]

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exactly.

[scardella]

Although incomplete, one can say that non-murder killing's end is never merely the death of another. It is a necessary side-effect. For instance, the goal in capital punishment is justice, the goal in a battle situation is accomplishing your mission, defending country, etc. In self-defense it is survival against an unjust aggressor.

However, this does NOT mean that killing merely as a side-effect means it is not wrong. It may be questionable to call it murder, though. Some relevant issues would be how IVF is usually done, therapeutic cloning or scientific experimentation that kills (like some of what the Nazis had done).

Edited August 19, 2005 by scardella

[Mikhail]

I used to take the Anabaptist view of nonresistance. I could still debate it very well even though I don't practice it. It states that all killing is wrong. Of course, you are not accountable for accidental killing, but killing to defend yourself, killing to protect your country, etc, is all wrong.

[scardella]

[quote name='Mikhail' date='Aug 19 2005, 03:57 PM']I used to take the Anabaptist view of nonresistance. I could still debate it very well even though I don't practice it. It states that all killing is wrong. Of course, you are not accountable for accidental killing, but killing to defend yourself, killing to protect your country, etc, is all wrong.
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It would seem that such a view is non Biblical, particularly w/ the OT.

[Mikhail]

The view is biblical, but only with the NT. If anyone wants to get into it, I'd be happy to play devil's advocate.

[hierochloe]

To me, murder = unjust killing.

Be that as it may, is there such a thing as a just killing?

[scardella]

[quote name='Mikhail' date='Aug 19 2005, 04:36 PM']The view is biblical, but only with the NT. If anyone wants to get into it, I'd be happy to play devil's advocate.
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Only on a new thread...

but then I wouldn't mind.

[qfnol31]

Murder=intentional killing of an innocent person.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='hierochloe' date='Aug 19 2005, 05:13 PM']To me, murder = unjust killing.

Be that as it may, is there such a thing as a just killing?
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There is a section in the Cathechism on "legitimate defense" (CCC 2263-2267). It basically means that sometimes killing someone may be necessary to preserve someone's life.

[White Knight]

[b]Norseman82:[/b] I read alot of your posts on my other thread dealing with the Death Penality, and I forget which one you are for Pro or Con or sometimes, which one were you? You look like you were a person who sometimes supports but it depends, or are you always for the Death Penality?

[Norseman82]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Aug 21 2005, 11:37 AM'][b]Norseman82:[/b] I read alot of your posts on my other thread dealing with the Death Penality, and I forget which one you are for Pro or Con or sometimes, which one were you? You look like you were a person who sometimes supports but it depends, or are you always for the Death Penality?
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Without reopening that debate, I believe it has to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.

[RandomProddy]

Killing --> the action of causing a living thing to die.
Murder --> the premeditated, intentional, illegal killing of a human being.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Mikhail' date='Aug 19 2005, 04:57 PM']I used to take the Anabaptist view of nonresistance. I could still debate it very well even though I don't practice it. It states that all killing is wrong. Of course, you are not accountable for accidental killing, but killing to defend yourself, killing to protect your country, etc, is all wrong.
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I have an obligation to protect myself, my children, and my country.

[White Knight]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Aug 21 2005, 07:44 PM']Without reopening that debate, I believe it has to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.
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Ahhh okay.

[Mikhail]

Like I said, I no longer hold that view. However, I can see why many people do and it is still hard for me to justify killing of humans for any reason, simply because it was so ingrained in me as I was raised. Like I said, I can play devil's advocate. (I'm studying to be a lawyer.) :-)

[White Knight]

But what if a prisons gets too full? why spend more money to build more, when you can keep the prisons maintained, by excuting the guilty, but give them as many chances to come to Christ, as we can give, before excuting them.