Saints and Heaven

[Nathan]

Question from an RCIAer:

How does the Church know that [i]all[/i] of those who have been canonized as saints are in Heaven? Is it not possible that a declared saint who had lived an outwardly saintly life might have sinned greatly in private, without anyone knowing about it? Is it not possible, then, that some saints might actually be in Hell?

Thanks.

[StColette]

I'll do some deeper research into this for you. But considering that the Church takes the cannonization of a person very seriously a mistake is definitely not likely. At a minimum the cannonization process can take 7 yrs. Some Saints have been declared after 100 or more years of research and miracles.


Canonization Process

VATICAN CITY, SEP 12, 1997 (VIS) - Today the Holy See Press Office made public the following note on canonical procedure for causes of beatification and canonization:

"1. Canon norms regarding the procedure to be followed for causes of saints are contained in the Apostolic Constitution 'Divinus Perfectionis Magister,' promulgated by John Paul II on January 25, 1983.

"2. To begin a cause it is necessary for at least 5 years to have passed since the death of the candidate. This is to allow greater balance and objectivity in evaluating the case and to let the emotions of the moment dissipate.

"3. The bishop of the diocese in which the person whose beatification is being requested died is responsible for beginning the investigation. The promoter group ('Actor Causae'): diocese, parish, religious congregation, association, asks the bishop through the postulator for the opening of the investigation. The bishop, once the 'nulla osta' of the Holy See is obtained, forms a diocesan tribunal for this purpose. Witnesses are called before the tribunal to recount concrete facts on the exercise of Christian virtues considered heroic, that is, the theological virtues: faith, hope and charity, and the cardinal virtues: prudence, justice, temperance and fortitude, and others specific to his state in life. In addition, all documents regarding the candidate must be gathered. At this point he is entitled to the title of Servant of God.

"4. Once the diocesan investigation is finished, the acts and documentation are passed on to the Congregation for the Causes of Saints. The public copy used for further work is put together here. The postulator, resident in Rome, follows the preparation of the 'Positio', or summary of the documentation that proves the heroic exercise of virtue, under the direction of a relator of the Congregation. The 'Positio' undergoes an examination (theological) by nine theologians who give their vote. If the majority of the theologians are in favour, the cause is passed on for examination by cardinals and bishops who are members of the congregation. They hold meetings twice a month. If their judgment is favourable, the prefect of the congregation presents the results of the entire course of the cause to the Holy Father, who gives his approval and authorizes the congregation to draft the relative decree. The public reading and promulgation of the decree follows.

"5. For the beatification of a confessor a miracle attributed to the Servant of God, verified after his death, is necessary. The required miracle must be proven through the appropriate canonical investigation, following a procedure analogous to that for heroic virtues. This one too is concluded with the relative decree. Once the two decrees are promulgated (regarding the heroic virtues and the miracle) the Holy Father decides on beatification, which is the concession of public worship, limited to a particular sphere. With beatification the candidate receives the title of Blessed.

"6. For canonization another miracle is needed, attributed to the intercession of the Blessed and having occurred after his beatification. The methods for ascertainment of the affirmed miracle are the same as those followed for beatification. Canonization is understood as the concession of public worship in the Universal Church. Pontifical infallibility is involved. With canonization, the Blessed acquires the title of Saint."

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Nathan' date='Aug 19 2005, 07:39 PM']Question from an RCIAer:

How does the Church know that [i]all[/i] of those who have been canonized as saints are in Heaven? Is it not possible that a declared saint who had lived an outwardly saintly life might have sinned greatly in private, without anyone knowing about it? Is it not possible, then, that some saints might actually be in Hell?

Thanks.
[right][snapback]691098[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
well, for one, i think its extremely rare that a person is able to live two lives like that for very long. more often than not, private sins (no sin is [i][b]truly[/b][/i] private) present themselves via some type of outward manifestation. likewise, a lifetime of holiness is usually reflective of a holy inner disposition (or at least an inner struggle towards holiness).

also, part of the process for canonization is proof of a miracle due to the intercession of that person after that person has died. we can't pray to souls in hell and souls in hell cannot hear us (since they are eternally separated from the Body of Christ). so, a miracle is a strong indicator of the eternal beatitude a soul shares w/ the Lord.

ultimately, the process of canonization is a witness to the hope that we all have that a life of holiness leads to heaven. it is a reassurance to us all that God's grace does indeed lead to salvation.

i hope that helps

pax christi,
phatcatholic

Edited August 20, 2005 by phatcatholic

[Laudate_Dominum]

Actually the process of canonization, in all its historical forms, is a discernment guided by the Holy Spirit and is a part of the Church's charism. If a person is declared a saint by the Church, rest assured it is true. When the Church declares a saint, it is really the voice of Christ making this proclamation through His Church. And we get an extra assurance, or stamp of approval from Heaven in the miracles and things.

[Nathan]

Cool!

Thanks, guys.

[Nathan]

I've been reading [i]The Oxford Dictionary of Saints[/i] over the past few days, and I have some concerns.

While the current process of canonization seems a more or less foolproof litmus test for true sainthood -- rare indeed would be the hellbound soul who sneaks through the cracks and is declared a saint by the Church in this day and age, I would agree -- I seriously wonder about some of the older saints. Basically, the process of canonization in, say, the 6th century couldn't have been nearly as thorough as it is today. From my reading, there seems to be many saints who were canonized simply because they were killed -- it is as if being martyred meant instant sainthood, regardless of the kind of person he/she really was in his/her day-to-day life, which, in many cases, we simply do not know and neither did the Church. I also find the fact that many kings and queens of England are saints to be kinda, well... fishy. (I was also a little disheartened to learn that there are more than a few listed saints that are purely mythical characters...)

Please help me understand this; I trust that I am in error.

[StColette]

There was no canonization process during the older days. Saints were proclaimed by the local people who knew them. The older Saints were those that work hard to help the poor in their communities etc. and lead holy lives. All old Saints have had miracles occur through their intercession, from what I know. I'll elaborate more later

"I also find the fact that many kings and queens of England are saints to be kinda, well... fishy"

which kings and queens? Some of them lead holy lives and contributed a lot to the good of the Church.

[StColette]

A lot of the ones that were martyrs during the earlier years, did die for being a Christian. My best advice is to not depend upon one source. Use many sources when reading about the Saints.

[Cure of Ars]

[quote name='Nathan' date='Aug 23 2005, 01:33 PM']I've been reading [i]I seriously wonder about some of the older saints. Basically, the process of canonization in, say, the 6th century couldn't have been nearly as thorough as it is today. [/quote]

Really I would say that it was just as thorough because the canonization of sainthood came from the universal belief of the Chruch.


[quote]From my reading, there seems to be many saints who were canonized simply because they were killed -- it is as if being martyred meant instant sainthood, regardless of the kind of person he/she really was in his/her day-to-day life, which, in many cases, we simply do not know and neither did the Church.[/quote]

Really in this case it is more sure that they are in heaven. The Catichism says the following;

[quote]1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.[/quote]

So just like water Baptims, Baptism by blood takes away all sin. And there was no time to mess it up so they are in heaven and it is a proper term to call them saints because they layed down their life for Christ.