Paladin D Posted August 22, 2005 Author Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Aug 22 2005, 05:02 PM']It wasn't "replaced." The Novus Ordo is the Tridentine Mass reformed. The qualities of the Tridentine Mass Aloysius lists above should be part of the Novus Ordo too. Their discontinuation has nothing to do with either Rite. [right][snapback]694544[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Ahhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rev Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 There cool, one of the guys fromt eh seminary help out with my site once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 modernization. communisim and liberalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Aug 22 2005, 05:02 PM']It wasn't "replaced." The Novus Ordo is the Tridentine Mass reformed. The qualities of the Tridentine Mass Aloysius lists above should be part of the Novus Ordo too. Their discontinuation has nothing to do with either Rite. [right][snapback]694544[/snapback][/right] [/quote] yeah, I mentioned that in my thing. I said "most" because I believe most bishops will not allow their priests to face ad orientum though I do believe it is possible in the novus ordo missae. the Pauline Missal is a re-formed version of the old mass, but it also is related to the ambrosian (Paul VI himself was from the archdiocese of milan where the ambrosian was celebrated). I don't think it is incorrect, then, to say that the Tridentine Mass was replaced by the Pauline Mass as the missa normativa of the roman rite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 22 2005, 05:12 PM']modernization. communisim and liberalism. [right][snapback]694565[/snapback][/right] [/quote] you are not totally wrong if you are referring to why the ICEL mistranslated a lot of the mass.... it was hard to get translators without agendas back then... but that is absolutely absurd to say that the novus ordo missae became the missa normativa of the roman church because of 'modernization, communism, and liberalism" the novus ordo missae was designed to further Vatican II's call to personal holiness of every man. prior to that, it was common to think of holiness as something only priests should aspire to and the normal lay folk should just stay back and confess to them when they were bad and attend mass where the priest showed how holy he was when he prayed. that was a common misunderstanding of the laity, and it was a bad thing. so they made the mass more accessable to the laity. they began far prior to the second vatican council... Pius XII I believe had already begun some reforms such as the 3 levels of participation a tridentine mass could be offered in. (level 1 being what was going on before Pius XII, levels 2 and 3 being more participation of the laity) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 btw, I have a whole bunch of historical missals, and let me tell you: 1965 was a good year for missals (vatican ii edition) I really like my maryknoll 1965 missal (no one says that anymore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 i have one from 1988. and than i have my 1962 SSPX missal (it was the cheapest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 considering that there's less than 20 original prayers from the tridentine in the new missal, i'd say it was replaced... notice in the funeral mass, or anywhere else in the missal, there's not 1 mention of the church being neccessary for salvation, or that a hell exists, or even purgatory. the fssp is ok- but they're also forced to con-celebrate the novus ordo, and 1 of them is only allowed to celebrate the novus ordo, explicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I have two Tridentine Missals that my mom used in grade school. I'm not sure what year exactly. They are sweet. I wish there were Tridentine Masses closer to where I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 That's bunk. I'm calling that one out. [quote]considering that there's less than 20 original prayers from the tridentine in the new missal, i'd say it was replaced... [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 My parish celebrates the Novus Ordo, and in a reverant way. We have: [quote]incence[/quote] Check [quote]bells[/quote] Check [quote]universal latin language[/quote] Not yet, although I have the feeling that the Masses at our parish may start turning to more Latin in the future. [quote]ad orientum position that emphasizes the sacrifice[/quote] We dont have this, but I can assure you, the emphasis is still on the sacrifice, and can be seen especially by the reverance of the priests and the altar boys. Our altar is stone/marble (not sure) and I know it contains a relic. Our tabernacle is directly behind the altar, on our high altar. [quote]gregorian chant, organ[/quote] No chant, but our hymns are "creator centered" rather than "creature centered". We have a beautiful organ. [quote]tons of altar boys who actually do stuff[/quote] Check. I participate in this [quote]an altar rail[/quote] We still have our altar rails, just a bit shorter now. [quote]and reception on the tongue on the knees..[/quote] when there are ministers distributing at the altar rails, people do kneel. If you recieve from the center aisle (not physically IN the aisle, but i mean if you are in the line thats in the center), then usually no one kneels. Its a shame though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritual_Arsonist Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I discerned with the FSSP for some time, and visited the a parish they run in Ottawa. They seem like a good order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Joe Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Aug 22 2005, 03:44 PM'][b]EDIT:[/b] They started out in Scranton, PA, but later on built a completely new seminary (from the ground up) in Denton, Nebraska. [url="http://www.fssp.org/en/seminaireD.htm"]http://www.fssp.org/en/seminaireD.htm[/url] [right][snapback]694489[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That's near where I live! Though, I've never been to one of their masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted August 23, 2005 Author Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='Old_Joe' date='Aug 22 2005, 08:29 PM']That's near where I live! Though, I've never been to one of their masses. [right][snapback]694855[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Where? PA or Nebraska? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Aug 22 2005, 07:26 PM']My parish celebrates the Novus Ordo, and in a reverant way. We have: Check Check Not yet, although I have the feeling that the Masses at our parish may start turning to more Latin in the future. We dont have this, but I can assure you, the emphasis is still on the sacrifice, and can be seen especially by the reverance of the priests and the altar boys. Our altar is stone/marble (not sure) and I know it contains a relic. Our tabernacle is directly behind the altar, on our high altar. No chant, but our hymns are "creator centered" rather than "creature centered". We have a beautiful organ. Check. I participate in this We still have our altar rails, just a bit shorter now. when there are ministers distributing at the altar rails, people do kneel. If you recieve from the center aisle (not physically IN the aisle, but i mean if you are in the line thats in the center), then usually no one kneels. Its a shame though. [right][snapback]694786[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I got none of those at my goofy parish. For a while they didn't even schedule confession. I get to hear the same homily every week and it's never related to the readings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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