bishop says we should have women cardinals

[Era Might]

Thank you for the further documentation.

I stand by my point that the original article linked does not advocate Women's Ordination, unless it is read into it. And, since you have provided further context from other citations, it can reasonably be read into it.

Now that we have established that, let's all abide by the exhortation of Pope Leo XIII and Pope St. Gregory the Great.

[quote]Among the prelates, indeed, one or other there may be affording scope to criticism either in regard to personal conduct or in reference to opinions by him entertained about points of doctrine; but no private person may arrogate to himself the office of judge which Christ our Lord has bestowed on that one alone whom He placed in charge of His lambs and of His sheep. Let every one bear in mind that most wise teaching of Gregory the Great: "Subjects should be admonished not rashly to judge their prelates, even if they chance to see them acting in a blameworthy manner, lest, justly reproving what is wrong, they be led by pride into greater wrong. They are to be warned against the danger of setting themselves up in audacious opposition to the superiors whose shortcomings they may notice. Should, therefore, the superiors really have committed grievous sins, their inferiors, penetrated with the fear of God, ought not to refuse them respectful submission. The actions of superiors should not be smitten by the sword of the word, even when they are rightly judged to have deserved censure."

--Encyclical Letter "Sapientiae Christianae"[/quote]

Edited August 23, 2005 by Era Might

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Aug 23 2005, 02:31 PM']Thank you for the further documentation.

I stand by my point that the original article linked does not advocate Women's Ordination, unless it is read into it. And, since you have provided further context from other citations, it can reasonably be read into it.

Now that we have established that, let's all abide by the exhortation of Pope Leo XIII and Pope St. Gregory the Great.
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Well I'm glad he is not my superior. I submit to Harry Flynn.

[Era Might]

It doesn't say "YOUR superior". It says "THE superiors"; that is, the Bishops.

[MC Just]

Bishop Gumby is a heretic, he was when he was ordained a priest and is now. He's one of those clerics who was picked by the sexual revolutionists (lavender mafia) of the sixties in one of the many "pink palaces" across america.

There are many like him, and many who follow him. He came here to south texas to pro-test the war with the sacrilege committing catholic democrats.

Edited August 23, 2005 by MC Just

[SarahB]

[quote name='thessalonian' date='Aug 23 2005, 03:24 PM'].[b] That's the reason we can't have small communities, and yet there are people thinking in the church, women, who are saying, "I have a vocation! I am called by God!" And they have the talent and the training and the ability to minister. Well, we live in the church or part of the church that refuses to be open, to listen, to the women in our midst. How wrong that is! And we build it right into our church law, which could be changed. [/b]One of the reasons women aren't listened to is because no woman has any office in the church. The only reason a woman can't have an office in the church, why a woman could not be a cardinal, for example, help to elect the Pope, is because we made laws -- [b]the men in the church made laws[/b] -- that make that impossible. The law, the canon law of the church says, "Only an ordained person can hold office." Then we say only men can be ordained, and so only men can hold office. How wrong that is!


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Don't you just love how he says that "part of the church" won't listen to the women, and "men" made the laws of the Church? You have to wonder why people who don't believe in the teachings of the Church stay, and even become priests.

[Apathy]

[quote name='Smile_Jesus_loves_you' date='Aug 23 2005, 10:55 AM']Why?? Can women be satisfided with the roles god gave them??
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Why can't everyone? Boy! How many times have I asked myself that question? I didn't bother to count but I'm sure its lots! Or at least a couple of times anyways.

Wouldn't that just be grand, for people to be satisfied with what they have and seek no more. Hey, I've been doing it for year and years and years and years and I ain't miserable over it. I ain't happier either but that's just perception.

Would you call Lucifer a success story after all?

I'm with you Smile_Jesus_loves_you, I really like your attitude. Heck, you almost made me smile.

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
8/23 - St. Rose of Lima

In fact, it used to be the case that laymen could be cardinals. Canon Law now states that cardinals must be men who have been ordained to the episcopate (i.e. Avery Dulles had to be ordained a bishop before he could become a cardinal).

Also, maybe I'm recalling something wrong, but didn't there used to be a position in the church called the "Cardinal Matriarch"? I'm thinking that it had something to do with the Benedictine order - heck, sometimes their prioresses used to look like bishops, what with their mitres, croziers, pectoral crosses and rings.

[Era Might]

Pio,

To the best of my knowledge, Cardinal Dulles remains a Jesuit priest.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Aug 23 2005, 04:22 PM']Bishop Gumby is a heretic, he was when he was ordained a priest and is now.  He's one of those clerics who was picked by the  sexual revolutionists (lavender mafia) of the sixties in one of the many "pink palaces" across america.

There are many like him, and many who follow him. He came here to south texas to pro-test the war with the sacrilege committing catholic democrats.
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Does he call himself Bishop "Gumby"?

[img]http://www.pitt.edu/~biohome/Dept/Img/graphics/gumby.jpg[/img]

Edited August 23, 2005 by thedude

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Aug 23 2005, 03:17 PM']It doesn't say "YOUR superior". It says "THE superiors"; that is, the Bishops.
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When he gives me something to submit about I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Era Might]

Pope Leo's and Gregory the Great's exhortation addresses more than obedience to legitimate commands, but also judgement of the Bishop. A layman has no authority to judge a Bishop. That authority belongs to the Roman Pontiff.

There can be peaceful discussion and disagreement between a layman and a Bishop, but judgement is reserved for his superior.

To say the least, nobody here has the authority to judge a Bishop to be a heretic. You can disagree with his statements, and point out why it may be factually at odds with the Church's faith, but judgement is not ours to give.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Aug 23 2005, 04:24 PM']Pope Leo's and Gregory the Great's exhortation addresses more than obedience to legitimate commands, but also judgement of the Bishop. A layman has no authority to judge a Bishop. That authority belongs to the Roman Pontiff.

There can be peaceful discussion and disagreement between a layman and a Bishop, but judgement is reserved for his superior.

To say the least, nobody here has the authority to judge a Bishop to be a heretic. You can disagree with his statements, and point out why it may be factually at odds with the Church's faith, but judgement is not ours to give.
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Perhaps you can show me where I called him a heretic. I have actually been quite careful not to say this. That would be a violation of the words that you posted. That would be acting in the Office of a judge. I however feel quite free to discuss whether certain statements of his are heretical. Women's ordination is one of those. What he has said is heretical. Are you always this anoying.

Edited August 23, 2005 by thessalonian

[Era Might]

I never said you called him a heretic. My words were in response to the general thread, and others who have called him a heretic.

[quote]Are you always this anoying.[/quote]

So I'm told.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Aug 23 2005, 04:55 PM']I never said you called him a heretic. My words were in response to the general thread, and others who have called him a heretic.[/quote]

Then respond to them. Thanks.

[Era Might]

[deleted]

Edited August 23, 2005 by Era Might