Why I am not a radical traditionalist

[qfnol31]

Oddly enough, I find the same attitude towards Traditionalists from many people who go to the Novus Ordo...

[Socrates]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Aug 23 2005, 01:41 PM']I flirted with radical traditionalism for a while. One reason I am not still, is because I find that many of them lack charity, in a problematic way. In such a way, that I think it is beyond mere human nature, and it is something cultural. Maybe that's just my personal experience. I also find that there is a culture of despair. "Scandal!" is on the lips of so many traditionalists, and it seems as though many of them look for scandal, hunt it out, and then scandalize others by crying "scandal!" There seems to be very little hope for the future, for the Church, for mankind, for Christianity, etc., among those circles. Again, this may just be my personal experience.

I find that traditionalists exalt the form of the liturgy over the intention. Both are foundational. The Eucharist is unitive, it restores us to grace, it is the source of charity on earth and the foundation of our fraternal communion.

I find that many radical traditionalists throw the baby out with the bathwater, just as they claim Vatican II has done.
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Unfortunately, I find this overall to be a rather accurate description. Obviously, it does not in any way apply to all Traditionalists, but far too many tend in this direction.

Edited August 24, 2005 by Socrates

[Aloysius]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Aug 23 2005, 08:06 PM']Oddly enough, I find the same attitude towards Traditionalists from many people who go to the Novus Ordo...
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amen.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Aug 23 2005, 08:06 PM']Oddly enough, I find the same attitude towards Traditionalists from many people who go to the Novus Ordo...
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Yup. Even on this site.

[MC Just]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Aug 23 2005, 10:58 PM']Yup.  Even on this site. 
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yep.

[theculturewarrior]

I would be considered a traditionalist by many people's standards. I prefer the Mass in Latin, with chant, incense, polyphony now and again. I also see the problems that have confronted the Church after Vatican II, although I don't blame the Council for this.

I think the line is drawn when one dissents from the Church. When somebody considers the Council invalid, or the Novus Ordo invalid. Also, I'm somewhat turned off by sectarianism. To some, I would be considered a "conservative Catholic," while I'm just trying to be a faithful Catholic!

Some people very dear to me refuser even to set foot inside a "Novus Ordo Church." However, if I have been uncharitable to any traditionalists, I apologize! :

[Paladin D]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Aug 23 2005, 02:41 PM']I flirted with radical traditionalism for a while. One reason I am not still, is because I find that many of them lack charity, in a problematic way. In such a way, that I think it is beyond mere human nature, and it is something cultural. Maybe that's just my personal experience. I also find that there is a culture of despair. "Scandal!" is on the lips of so many traditionalists, and it seems as though many of them look for scandal, hunt it out, and then scandalize others by crying "scandal!" There seems to be very little hope for the future, for the Church, for mankind, for Christianity, etc., among those circles. Again, this may just be my personal experience.

I find that traditionalists exalt the form of the liturgy over the intention. Both are foundational. The Eucharist is unitive, it restores us to grace, it is the source of charity on earth and the foundation of our fraternal communion.

I find that many radical traditionalists throw the baby out with the bathwater, just as they claim Vatican II has done.
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Exactly.

[Brother Adam]

What ever happened to just being a good Catholic. Believing fully in the Catholic faith, attending mass, going to confession regularly and so on. Nuts to groups like charasmatics and traditionalists and modernists. Just give me plain ol' simple Catholic.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Aug 24 2005, 11:06 AM']What ever happened to just being a good Catholic. Believing fully in the Catholic faith, attending mass, going to confession regularly and so on. Nuts to groups like charasmatics and traditionalists and modernists. Just give me plain ol' simple Catholic.
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I would like nothing more.

[son_of_angels]

Going to confession, believing correctly, attending mass, these are all indeed good things to make one a good Catholic, but are they really things that make you a good Christian?
I say this not in doubt that any of the above things are good, required, and part of being Christian, but when Jesus gave the eight beatitudes not one of the things mentioned above were mentioned. I think above all we need to struggle for personal virtue and to conform our lives to the Christian lifestyle, to the teachings which Christ taught us from the beginning.
I am not saying this either to imply that emphasis should be taken away from such things as Confession, Mass, but so the right emphasis can be placed on them. Going to mass, but going only to receive Christ sacramentally and not spiritually, doesn't really make sense Biblically or in tradition. Saying a rosary, but never living into the prayer at the end, "that we may both imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise," doesn't really make sense either. Going to confession, but never committing to a life of charity is the surest way to Hell I can think of. Genuflecting and making copious signs of the cross, but never experiencing the Holy Spirit makes one no more pious than a heretic.

Just some thoughts.

[theculturewarrior]

I agree.

We cannot be hypocrites and love the Lord for long.

Jesus, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me, a sinner!

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

why I am a rad trad

some many reasons so little time...........

[Noel's angel]

don't say 'this is why i am something' and then not state the reasons

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

I like traditon

the old mass

Truth

i don't like

false ecumenicism

dancing popes

popes kissing the Koran

Popes praying with Apostates heretics and schismatics

[Noel's angel]

I'm afraid it doesn't matter what any of us 'like' because faith is not where we choose things that we like and disregard the rest.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

this is true

i have no faith for those protestant things.

[Noel's angel]

ok, so now you are calling the Pope a Protestant??? Yet you are also calling yourself a faithful Catholic? The word 'confusion' springs to mind

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 24 2005, 04:25 PM']I like traditon

the old mass

Truth

i don't like

false ecumenicism
[/quote]
The Pope likes these things too.

[quote]dancing popes

popes kissing the Koran

Popes praying with Apostates heretics and schismatics[/quote]
Gee, that's a good reason to become schismatic.. Sheesh.
Imagine if the Pope was a warmonger, a murderer and a fornicator! We would still owe the Church our absolute fidelity. Many saints will testify to that fact.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i owe the church fidelity. but i owe no fidelity to Vatican II

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i didn't call him a protestant

i think in somethings he does he acts like one.