Pope Benedict meets rebel bishop

[cappie]

Pope Benedict meets rebel bishop


Pope Benedict XVI met yesterday with Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the dissident Society of St Pius X, for talks aimed toward reconciliation between the Holy See and the traditionalist group founded by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

Catholic World News reports that Joaquin Navarro-Valls, director of the Vatican Press Office, reported that the meeting had been held "in a climate of love for the Church and a desire to arrive at perfect communion." He said that the Pope and Bishop Fellay were hoping to make gradual progress in overcoming differences, so that a full agreement could be reached "in a reasonable time."

In his own statement after the meeting, Bishop Fellay said that his visit to the Pope showed that the SSPX "has always been, and will always be, attached to the Holy See."

Echoing the Vatican's official statement, Bishop Fellay said that the 35-minute conversation had produced an agreement to work gradually toward a resolution of the differences between the traditionalist group and the Vatican, "in a spirit of great love for the Church."

The Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), founded by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, broke from the Vatican in 1988, when the French prelate ordained four new bishops in defiance of a direct order from Rome. Pope John Paul II responded by announcing that the traditionalist group had committed a "schismatic act", incurring the penalty of excommunication for Archbishop Lefebvre and the bishops (including Bishop Fellay) he had ordained. But the Vatican has repeatedly sought means of restoring normal ties with the traditionalist group.

After the meeting Bishop Fellay said that members of the SSPX would pray "that the Holy Father will find the strength to bring an end to the crisis in the Church and 'restore all things in Christ.'"

Informed Vatican officials speculate that Pope Benedict may be prepared to grant the traditionalist request for a "universal indult" allowing the use of the Tridentine rite.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='cappie' date='Aug 29 2005, 06:14 PM']Pope Benedict meets rebel bishop
Pope Benedict XVI met yesterday with Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the dissident Society of St Pius X, for talks aimed toward reconciliation between the Holy See and the traditionalist group founded by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

Catholic World News reports that Joaquin Navarro-Valls, director of the Vatican Press Office, reported that the meeting had been held "in a climate of love for the Church and a desire to arrive at perfect communion." He said that the Pope and Bishop Fellay were hoping to make gradual progress in overcoming differences, so that a full agreement could be reached "in a reasonable time."

In his own statement after the meeting, Bishop Fellay said that his visit to the Pope showed that the SSPX "has always been, and will always be, attached to the Holy See."

Echoing the Vatican's official statement, Bishop Fellay said that the 35-minute conversation had produced an agreement to work gradually toward a resolution of the differences between the traditionalist group and the Vatican, "in a spirit of great love for the Church."

The Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), founded by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, broke from the Vatican in 1988, when the French prelate ordained four new bishops in defiance of a direct order from Rome. Pope John Paul II responded by announcing that the traditionalist group had committed a "schismatic act", incurring the penalty of excommunication for Archbishop Lefebvre and the bishops (including Bishop Fellay) he had ordained. But the Vatican has repeatedly sought means of restoring normal ties with the traditionalist group.

After the meeting Bishop Fellay said that members of the SSPX would pray "that the Holy Father will find the strength to bring an end to the crisis in the Church and 'restore all things in Christ.'"

Informed Vatican officials speculate that Pope Benedict may be prepared to grant the traditionalist request for a "universal indult" allowing the use of the Tridentine rite.
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Maybe the SSPX should do a little praying as well - for themselves.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote]After the meeting Bishop Fellay said that members of the SSPX would pray "that the Holy Father will find the strength to bring an end to the crisis in the Church and 'restore all things in Christ.'"[/quote]

Is it just me or does that phrase sound kind of sketchy?

[MilesChristi]

[quote]After the meeting Bishop Fellay said that members of the SSPX would pray "that the Holy Father will find the strength to bring an end to the crisis in the Church and 'restore all things in Christ.'"[/quote]




I pray that Bishop Fellay will find the humility to bring an end to this crisis.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Ok, I'm glad I'm not the only one!

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I wouldn't be suprised to see reunion soon. This is a huge step forward.

[raptor13]

i'm more worried about that Williamson guy than Fellay.

[MC Just]

[quote name='cappie' date='Aug 29 2005, 05:14 PM']"
Informed Vatican officials speculate that Pope Benedict may be prepared to grant the traditionalist request for a "universal indult" allowing the use of the Tridentine rite.
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[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MilesChristi' date='Aug 29 2005, 06:28 PM']
I pray that Bishop Fellay will find the humility to bring an end to this crisis.
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Thats why I said they need to pray for themselves first.

[MC Just]

this sounds sweet. I pray for a reunion and a healing of the church..

[Aloysius]

so... will there be a re-ordination of their bishops if they unify?

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

The ordinations were valid albeit illicit, no?

[Aloysius]

the priestly ones yes.

I'm not so sure about the bishops though... there would at least have to be something by which the Pope showed they were bishops only because he made them bishops... maybe it'd just be some sort of installation or something I don't know...

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Aug 29 2005, 07:54 PM']this sounds sweet. I pray for a reunion and a healing of the church..
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As do I. I just kind of got a bad feeling with that one comment. It felt like he was saying the Church needs to change but the SSPX is fine and doesn't need to change anything.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

the SSPX will never reconcile if their bishops have to be reordained because that would mean that they were wrong and they don't think they are.

[MC Just]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='Aug 29 2005, 08:31 PM']As do I. I just kind of got a bad feeling with that one comment. It felt like he was saying the Church needs to change but the SSPX is fine and doesn't need to change anything.
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thats not what i was saying. I was simply saying that things ill be better in the church when the two are no longer divided, like maybe the mass as defined by VII will actually be said right across the world? Maybe many parish can learn liturgical lessons from sspx?

Edited August 30, 2005 by MC Just

[picchick]

Reasons why I do not like SSPX

[quote]However, even if we could be certain of the validity of the Novus Ordo Masses celebrated in today’s Conciliar churches, it does not follow that they are pleasing to God. Much to the contrary, they are objectively sacrilegious, even if those who assist at them are not aware of it. By such a statement, I do not mean that all those who celebrate or assist at the New Mass are necessarily in mortal sin, having done something directly insulting to Almighty God and to our Divine Savior.[/quote]

"Novus Ordo" Masses are not an insult to God

There are other reasons too. I am unable to list them at the moment but here is the website at which I am gathering this information.

[url="http://www.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/catholic_faqs__traditional"]http://www.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/catholic_faqs__traditional[/url]

[cmotherofpirl]

from SpiritDaily:
Pope opens talks with Latin Mass renegades
From Richard Owen in Rome



POPE BENEDICT XVI, who reached out to Muslims and Jews last week on his first trip to his native Germany since his election, is preparing to mend an enduring schism within the Roman Catholic Church.



Vatican sources say that the Pope is planning to lift the excommunication of a group of renegade ultra-traditionalists by his predecessor, John Paul II, 17 years ago.

In an unprecedented move, the Pope is to receive Bishop Bernard Fellay, the Superior General of the Society of St Pius X, for conciliation talks at his summer residence at Castelgandolfo today.

The society (or brotherhood) was set up in 1969 by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, of France, who gathered around him right-wing traditionalists opposed to the reforms of the Second Vatican Council and established a seminary at Ecône in Switzerland.

Archbishop Lefebvre and his followers claimed that the reforms had dissolved traditional Catholicism. The reforms were designed to bring Church rituals closer to ordinary people by introducing everyday language into the liturgy in place of the traditional Tridentine or Latin Mass. The Latin Mass, established by the Council of Trent in the 16th century, is not banned but can be used only with the permission of a local bishop and with approval from Rome.

The ultra-traditionalists’ relations with the Vatican frayed to breaking point in 1976 when Archbishop Lefebvre accused Catholic modernists — including Pope Paul VI — of heresy. In response, Paul VI banned the Archbishop and his followers from saying Mass or taking the sacraments.

John Paul II, after his election as Pope in 1978, sought to mend the rift but excommunicated Archbishop Lefebvre in 1988 for ordaining four bishops at Ecône despite repeated warnings that he was no longer in communion with the Pope.

Archbishop Lefebvre died in 1991 but his breakaway group continues to operate worldwide, with 4 bishops, 460 priests, 7 seminaries and nearly 500 churches, all using the Latin Mass.

Andrea Tornielli, a papal biographer, said that Benedict XVI — formerly the guardian of Vatican tradition as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger — was well placed to mend the rift since he had himself shown a preference for the Latin Mass.

Four years ago, when still John Paul II’s right-hand man, Benedict referred to the followers of Archbishop Lefebvre as “our brothers and sisters”, adding “we must do whatever is possible to attract them back. It is better to heal our wounds within the Church rather than letting them fester outside it.”

Vatican sources said that the Pope hoped to build on Ecclesia Dei — the pontifical commission that was created by John Paul II to monitor the Lefebvrists — by creating a body that would supervise the arch-traditionalists under the Pope’s direct control.

The Lefebvrists, in turn, are seeking the lifting of their excommunication and the right to hold Latin Masses without first seeking the approval of the Vatican.

Richard Williamson, one of the four bishops created by Archbishop Lefebvre and a noted hardliner, said that the hopes surrounding Bishop Fellay’s meeting with the Pope were unrealistically optimistic. Bishop Williamson, a British Catholic convert from Anglicanism, who was one Archbishop Lefebvre’s earliest recruits, said that the “web of deceit” had been “spun by the Vatican for too long. It is a case of ‘welcome to my parlour, said the spider to the fly’.”

He thought it unlikely that the Pope would give his “unconditional blessing” to the Lefebvrists, adding: “The war goes on between the friends and enemies of the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ.” He warned Bishop Fellay to beware of Vatican duplicity.


This is closer to the reality of the SSPX.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

will he just lift it because they will not accept that their ever was a schism or that Vatican II is infalllbile because they believe some of it contained heresy.

[picchick]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Aug 29 2005, 08:44 PM']thats not what i was saying. I was simply saying that things ill be better in the church when the two are no longer divided, like maybe the mass as defined by VII will actually be said right across the world? Maybe many parish can learn liturgical  lessons from sspx?
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A liturgical one perhaps yes other than that I don't know what I can learn from them.
I have babysat for family's of SSPX. I do not appreciate their treatment of women. I am not a feminist. I am happy to be a woman. But these families take the wife subordinancy way out of proportion in my mind.

For example, men CAN help out in the "womanly" work. The father of one of the families spit in the sink and then walked off. The wife then cleaned up his mess.

At a homeschool picnic he parked the car and then sat down. His wife and children brought the table chairs and food.

During a Church pilgrimage their children were misbehaving. The husband did not even lift a finger to help his wife. She had a newborn too.

That is one of the main things I do not like.
I would be happy to discuss my other reasonings if people would like.
Meg