New law could mean death penalty for doctors

[MC Just]

New law could mean death penalty for doctors
Legislators say that wasn't their intent with the abortion measure
By KELLEY SHANNON
Associated Press

AUSTIN - Texas doctors who perform abortions without parental approval or after the third trimester could face capital murder charges because of a new law that takes effect this week, a prosecutors group says.
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The Texas District and County Attorneys Association has outlined that scenario in its new book updating the Texas penal code and in public presentations around the state. The group says such charges could occur under the new law because of the 2003 fetal protection law.

Key legislators said Monday that wasn't their intent.

Sen. Jane Nelson, R-Lewisville, who pushed the parental consent measure, said in a prepared statement that her legislation was strictly limited to giving parents the right to consent when a minor is considering an abortion and to preventing late-term abortions.

"There were no discussions about the death penalty during our legislative discussions of this issue," Nelson said.

A capital murder conviction can result in the death penalty.

Rep. Ray Allen, R-Grand Prairie, who sponsored the 2003 bill defining an embryo or fetus as an "individual," said the law may need clearing up in a future legislative session.

"I don't see the Legislature wanting to charge doctors with capital murder based on a technical legal issue over whether parental consent was properly documented," Allen said.

The fetal protection bill was designed to allow for prosecution of a person who harms or kills an embryo or fetus, supporters say. Exceptions were made for legal drug use, action taken by the mother or a "lawful medical procedure."

But legislators this year defined two scenarios that would be "prohibited practice" in medicine: performing an abortion on an unmarried girl under age 18 without proper consent, and performing an abortion in the third trimester that isn't covered by certain exceptions. The law takes effect Thursday.

That means a doctor performing a prohibited abortion could be accused of capital murder because the capital murder law covers the death of a child under age 6, according to the prosecutors association.

"I think it's a little bit of a stretch," said Elizabeth Graham, director of Texas Right To Life. "The legislative intent clearly was not to incarcerate doctors or execute doctors who are performing abortions, illegal or otherwise." The chances are "very slim" that a district attorney would try such prosecution, she said.

Sarah Wheat, executive director of NARAL Pro-choice Texas, said it can't be ruled out.

"I think, when it comes to this issue, there is always someone who is looking for a political win," Wheat said.

Like Texas, many states have enacted parental consent and fetal protection laws, said Jody Ruskamp-Hatz, policy specialist for the National Conference of State Legislatures. Ruskamp-Hatz said she is not aware of another state in which there is an interpretation that abortion doctors could be subjected to capital murder charges.

The Texas Medical Association said it opposes any legislation with the stated purpose of subjecting doctors to capital murder charges. A violation of the parental consent law "would mean the physician could lose his or her license, not his or her liberty," spokesman Darren Whitehurst said.

[url="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3330600"]http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/m...politan/3330600[/url]

Edited September 1, 2005 by MC Just

[hierochloe]

Will be interesting to see where this leads.

[Theoketos]

I think that if Capital Punishment can be just it would be in this case.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Right on.

[White Knight]

[b]"Excellent." - Mr. Burns[/b]

No serious I do approve of this.

[avemaria40]

i don't like this : u can't stop murder w/murder life in prison would be better and it should be maximum sentence for anyone who performs an abortion.

Edited September 1, 2005 by avemaria40

[White Knight]

Its not murder, when you take another ones life when its for Justice. Even God Himself supports that in the Old Testment.

[avemaria40]

i thought the Catholic Church opposed the death penalty. I also believe that life in prison is much better economically (it costs more for the State to execute someone),and i believe that the State has absolutely no right to declare who is going to die, only God has that right. And it could give a prisoner a better chance of repentance (although ppl on death row have converted and repented)b/c they'd always think about it.
Now in Hitler's case or something like that, it would be much safer to give him the death penalty b/c he could still command troops in prison. But a maximum security prison offers no chance of anything bad hapening or escape

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

no i do not agree with this.

Life in prision

the old testament is not a full revelation of Gods Law.

[qfnol31]

The Catholic Church does not oppose the death penalty as a whole, and allows for it.

However, more recently, many individual Catholics have begun to support it much less.

[Paladin D]

The death penality is not completely opposed by the Church, but with America's prison systems, there is very little use for it.

Majority of those who seek capital punishment against someone, it's usually out of revenge.

[Iacobus]

I would be intrested in seeing what comes of this, but if I were to bet on it, it would never go to court, and if it did, it would be overturned by judical review because the writers intent was not to create this "loop hole" or whatever.

[White Knight]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Sep 1 2005, 07:53 PM']i thought the Catholic Church opposed the death penalty.  I also believe that life in prison is much better economically (it costs more for the State to execute someone),and i believe that the State has absolutely no right to declare who is going to die, only God has that right.  And it could give a prisoner a better chance of repentance (although ppl on <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.qklinkserver.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=92&k=death%20row&st=1" onmouseover="window.status='Search for: death row'; self.ql_skeyphrase='death%20row'; if(window.event) self.ql_sevent=window.event.srcElement; self.ql_timeout = setTimeout('ql_doMouseOver(1)', 1000); self.ql_isOverLink=true; return true;" onclick="if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; ql_closeiframe(); self.ql_skeyphrase='death%20row'; window.status='Search for: death row';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; setTimeout('ql_closeiframe()', 1500); ">death row</a> have converted and repented)b/c they'd always think about it. 
  Now in Hitler's case or something like that, it would be much safer to give him the death penalty b/c he could still command troops in prison.  But a maximum security prison offers no chance of anything bad hapening or escape
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Actually it costs just as much for the state if not more to keep them in prison and to spend more state funds to secrue prisons, than to excute a person.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 1 2005, 07:05 PM']Its not murder, when you take another ones life when its for Justice. Even God Himself supports that in the Old Testment.
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ROFL that sounds funny...why just the God of the Old Testament? God surely cannot change!

But the Church teaches Capital punishment is to be used only in rare cases

[White Knight]

yup.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='ardillacid' date='Sep 2 2005, 01:01 AM']ROFL that sounds funny...why just the God of the Old Testament? God surely cannot change!

But the Church teaches Capital punishment is to be used only in rare cases
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the Church teaches that it should be used with prudential and cautious judgement by the competant authorities.

the prudential judgement of the pope in regards to modern conditions is that it should be rarely if practically never used.

that's important to understand.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Sep 1 2005, 07:53 PM']i thought the Catholic Church opposed the death penalty.   [/quote]

Let's put the proper perspective on this so that we can see that the Church is not opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances. However the view from the Magesterium is generally that, other non-lethal meanse are available in order to protect the public, so that lethal means should be very rare or non-existant.

2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church [b]does not exclude recourse to the death penalty[/b], if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - [b]the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."[/b]

Edited September 2, 2005 by thessalonian

[son_of_angels]

Actually, though, that section of the Catechism does also mean that recourse to the death penalty could not only be applied in cases of murder, but in the case of anyone from whom society is unable to be protected.

Murder is, in general, a more preventable, correctable crime than, say, rape or even abortion (by a doctor). These types of people believe they have the right, or the ability to claim the right to kill and influence people's lives negatively, and will continue to do so before and after incarceration. However, murder often is a one-time thing that can be almost a punishment in and of itself.

[popestpiusx]

I say go for it.

It is not murder to execute a murderer. It is called 'justice', which also happens to be virtue. Anyone who attempts to claim that the Catholic Church is against the death penalty (per se) either does not know what the Catholic Church teaches, or is intentionally misleading people to support the leftist cause to end what is a right and duty of natural and divine law possessed by the state.

[Socrates]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Sep 2 2005, 04:50 PM']I say go for it. 

It is not murder to execute a murderer. It is called 'justice', which also happens to be  virtue.  Anyone who attempts to claim that the Catholic Church is against the death penalty (per se) either does not know what the Catholic Church teaches, or is intentionally misleading people to support the leftist cause to end what is a right and duty of natural and divine law possessed by the state.
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True. I've gotten sick of having to explain in every debate where the topic gets brought up that the death penalty does not in itself go against Catholic teaching.

This seems ot have been an unfortunately successful tool by the political Left to confuse moral issues - especially the way a politician's stance on the death penalty seems to always equivicated with and "weighed against" supporting abortion.