Murder and mayhem in NO's miserable shelter

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 3 2005, 08:10 AM']I think it would require a certian blindness to say that the media isn't biased toward what is evil and negative. No one claims what is happening isn't tragedy, but what the media is delivering is none-the-less tainted by their overwhelming desire to see the demise of Pres Bush. It isn't about having every detail in a news story, but if they are going to go into such detail as to tell us about the park of the Superdome where the bodies are locked up, surely they can devote a single line to telling us how many people have been evacuated. Typically you would tell large details before small.
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Right, I'm sure that's the over-arching goal behind so many people's reporting of this -- to see the demise of a President who can't be re-elected again anyway. I'm sure Reuters (or whatever news service this story came from) did have stories about the people who were being rescued. I've seen such reports on TV (NBC). You're taking this story out of the context of the rest of this particular service's coverage. And I doubt you've written many news stories, so how do you know how a reporter would typically arrange the facts of the story?

I don't think people murdering and raping one another in the Superdome is a "small detail." I also don't think it's wrong to write a story which questions the President's response to this tragedy -- which has been unaccountably slow. I remember how quickly the federal response to 9-11 was coordinated, and so do millions of other people, and in comparison the response here seems sluggish. You may not agree, and that's thoroughly within your rights, but I, like millions of other Americans, am struggling to understand how it is that we have children STARVING TO DEATH in our own country. It's unconscionable, particularly since there were days before Katrina struck New Orleans in which preparations could have been made. It's not like similar disasters haven't happened in the city in the past. While the President may not personally bear culpability for the sum total of the disaster, his administration should have responded better. As the head of that administration, the buck officially stops at his desk, so he's going to bear the brunt of lots of people's anger and criticism. And I don't think that anger has much to do with the media's purported anti-Bush sentiments.

[desertwoman]

The reporters down there are finally experiencing and realizing that there is a division here and they are getting frustrated.

Bill O'Reilly stated to one of the reporters that he sensed some bitterness in his response. The reporter said that he wasn't bitter, but he was wondering why and how did his truck and his personell got here, five days ago, and no one else is there. He is gratefull that others are being helped, but what about them.

To hear people dying, being raped, and starving in front of him is taking its toll.

[jasJis]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 3 2005, 09:22 AM']murdering and raping one another in the Superdome is a "small detail." I also don't think it's wrong to write a story which questions the President's response to this tragedy -- which has been unaccountably slow. I remember how quickly the federal response to 9-11 was coordinated, and so do millions of other people, and in comparison the response here seems sluggish. You may not agree, and that's thoroughly within your rights, but I, like millions of other Americans, am struggling to understand how it is that we have children STARVING TO DEATH in our own country. It's unconscionable, particularly since there were days before Katrina struck New Orleans in which preparations could have been made. It's not like similar disasters haven't happened in the city in the past. While the President may not personally bear culpability for the sum total of the disaster, his administration should have responded better. As the head of that administration, the buck officially stops at his desk, so he's going to bear the brunt of lots of people's anger and criticism. And I don't think that anger has much to do with the media's purported anti-Bush sentiments.
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[/quote]Sorry, but this is flat out stupid. Florida was hit with 4 hurricanes, some of them hit repeatedly. Immediate aid came from the Florida National Guard, not from out of State. States have GOVENORS with the power to deploy the State's national guard for a reason. Louisiana has some of the crappiest politics around, and they are blaming the President to divert blame from them. The major media is overwhelmingly Democrat and by blaming the President and his Administration, it hurts the Republicans. It's not just to destroy the current President, it's politics to get a Democratic President on the next election.
What? Lousiana doesn't get hit often with hurricanes and they can't have a State plan without the Federal Government doing it? That's news to Texas, Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas. Do we not take into account the size of the damaged area and the emergency plans of the States? Louisiana had a run through of their emergency plans less than a year ago but failed to implement their plan. That's the Federal Government's fault? The Mayor of NO has his headquarters a couple of miles away and he couldn't assign NO police to the Superdome? That's the President's fault? The Govenor of LA sent in 1,500 Guards and sent 0 to the Superdome. That's the Federal Government's fault?

[Norseman82]

I don't condone cussing, but I wonder if the New Orleans mayor is going to go on live TV when one of these rapists are caught and take one half the energy he spent in his cussing tantrum earlier this week and use it on publicly getting in the face of a caught rapist or someone shooting at a relief helicopter or threatening a doctor what a disgusting pig he/she is.

People say it's wrong to judge. When I see stuff like this going on, I think we need [i]more[/i] judgement in the world today.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Sep 3 2005, 01:07 PM']Sorry, but this is flat out stupid. 
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Thank you.

[Brother Adam]

9:38 A.M. - Brown; The situation at the Convention Center is under control.

9:37 A.M. - Brown: Amtrak trains are now flowing out of the city with evacuees.

9:36 A.M. - Brown; Approximately 1,700 people in hospitals still need to be evacuated.

9:35 A.M. - Brown: We have 80,000 people in shelters in areas outside of the area.

9:35 A.M. - Brown: Three Carnival Cruise ships are going to be used for temporary housing. Zephyr Field will be used as a military hospital.

9:35 A.M. - Brown: Rescue workers are going house to house looking for survivors.

9:39 A.M. - FEMA Director Mike Brown: Nearly 4,000 people were airlifted out of New Orleans area yesterday. Approximately 25,000 people have been airlifted out to date. We've gotten out 95 percent of the people in the Superdome.

10:01 A.M. - TUPELO, Miss. (AP) -- Bestselling writer John Grisham and his wife will contribute $5 million to a relief fund they established this week at a Tupelo bank to help Mississippians rebuild after Hurricane Katrina.

10:03 A.M. - Brown: Seeing the magnitude of this tragedy, people want to lash out at FEMA, they want to lash out at me. That's fine and understandable. But I have to continue trying to save lives.

10:14 A.M. - Army Corps of Engineers official: 1,200 corps members in the New Orleans area.

10:21 A.M. - Gen. Jon Graham, Dir. of Civil Works: Over 35,000 people have been evacuated from the city, using more than 780 commercial buses. Initially, between 60,000 and 80,000 were estimated to be trapped in the city when the evacuation process began. However, as the evacuation missions continue, more and more people keep showing up at evacuation sites.

10:26 A.M. - (AP): Animal welfare groups are scrambling to rescue pets left behind by hurricane victims. The International Fund for Animal Welfare says at least 300 dogs have been taken from New Orleans to Houston, where they're being cared for by the SPCA. And hundreds more may be arriving soon.

11:30 A.M. - MINNEAPOLIS (AP): Thousands of refugees from Hurricane Katrina could soon be arriving in Minnesota, where people may be asked to open their homes to victims of the devastating storm.

Gov. Tim Pawlenty announced Saturday on WCCO-AM that Minnesota has been asked by the Federal Emergency Management Agency to house up to 5,000 people displaced by the hurricane that ravaged the Gulf Coast.

The refugees could begin arriving in a "matter of days," Pawlenty said.

Pawlenty said the state is looking at National Guard armories and perhaps Camp Ripley in central Minnesota as an initial receiving station. Part of the plan might involve Minnesotans opening their homes to hurricane refugees, he said.

Pawlenty said Minnesota is happy to help.

11:52 A.M. - HOUSTON (AP): The American Red Cross is working to reunite families separated in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The agency has activated the Family Links Registry, which is accessible by telephone or the Internet.

11:54 A.M. - TYLER, TX (AP): A newspaper in Tyler has agreed to offer free help-wanted classified ads to link local businesses and hurricane refugees seeking jobs.

11:55 A.M. - NEW YORK (AP): The Big Apple will raise its glasses to the Big Easy -- not for toasts, but to collect money for more than 80,000 hospitality workers from the hurricane-ravaged city.

In addition to New York, bars around the country also have promised to mix cocktails to help the Louisiana bartenders and hotel, casino and restaurant workers facing unemployment.

12:04 P.M. - FBI Special Agent in charge of Louisiana James Bernazzani: FBI offices in New Orleans took a direct hit. The FBI never left the city, he said. Tactical teams were moving around the city working to secure specific locations deemed vital to the survival of the city.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Sep 3 2005, 01:25 PM']People say it's wrong to judge.  When I see stuff like this going on, I think we need [i]more[/i] judgement in the world today.
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Very well then, I shall act as a judge. You misspelled "judgment."

[Brother Adam]

12:44 P.M. - CHARLESTON, WV (AP): Louisiana and Texas have accepted West Virginia's offer to help relocate displaced Louisiana residents in need of assistance, Gov. Joe Manchin announced Saturday.

At about 11:30 a.m. Saturday, six West Virginia Air National Guard C-130s left Charleston's Yeager Airport for New Orleans Airport to pick up approximately 500 Louisiana residents "looking for a safe and friendly place to lay their heads," Manchin said.

The first plane was to arrive Saturday evening back at Yeager, where the passengers would be given food, water, showers, blankets and medical attention, he said. From there, they were to be flown to Morgantown and bused to Camp Dawson in Preston County, where they will be temporarily housed.

"We will welcome these fellow Americans with open arms and I am confident that our residents will quickly rise to the challenge of helping our new neighbors rebuild their lives," the governor said.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote]11:30 A.M. - MINNEAPOLIS (AP): Thousands of refugees from Hurricane Katrina could soon be arriving in Minnesota, where people may be asked to open their homes to victims of the devastating storm.

Gov. Tim Pawlenty announced Saturday on WCCO-AM that Minnesota has been asked by the Federal Emergency Management Agency to house up to 5,000 people displaced by the hurricane that ravaged the Gulf Coast.

The refugees could begin arriving in a "matter of days," Pawlenty said.

Pawlenty said the state is looking at National Guard armories and perhaps Camp Ripley in central Minnesota as an initial receiving station. Part of the plan might involve Minnesotans opening their homes to hurricane refugees, he said.

Pawlenty said Minnesota is happy to help.
[/quote]

We've already started seeing Lousiana license plates.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 3 2005, 12:46 PM']Very well then, I shall act as a judge.  You misspelled "judgment."
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Both are correct.

[philothea]

[quote name='Dreamweaver' date='Sep 3 2005, 02:32 AM'][url="http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8684"]Here's[/url] an interesting article that explains the culture and lawlesness of New Orleans, and how the hurricane really pushed it to the edge (ie, police taking part in the looting).
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No criticism of you intended, Dreamweaver, but the article seems a mite ignorant and biased to me. A few points:

In the 100 most populous metropolitan areas, New Orleans is (was?) 35th for crime. Yes, of course the crime rate there was higher than "average" but that's true for [i]all[/i] urban areas of the USA.

When I think of "gansta rap" New Orleans wouldn't even cross my mind, and neither would I think of any sort of rap as a dominant musical genre in NO. Jazz and Blues and Gospel, sure, but no one associates criminals with that stuff, I guess.

And police in metropolitan areas want to live elsewhere all the time, and cities rarely let them. Usually police want to live in the 'burbs because urban schools aren't as good as suburban ones.

I also like the "Only 1 in 4 murderers are convicted" statistic. How could anyone know that?

Anyway the article seems like a lot of blame-the-vicitms and guesswork. I don't imagine many other US cities would fare better in the same circumstances.

[Ash Wednesday]

We can attempt to pin down where the government response went wrong, but it's also hard to help people when they are rioting and shooting at you.

I think government AND citizens alike should shoulder the blame. But being humans, we are a lot better at finger pointing than we are taking personal responsibility.

[quote]Jazz and Blues and Gospel, sure, but no one associates criminals with that stuff, I guess.[/quote] Compared to rap, how many jazz, blues and gospel singers sing explicit songs about pimpin', dealin', gang banging, guns and drugs?

I've never been to NO but from what I've heard from someone whose family is from there, the ghetto element of the city is largely ignored, or else people just aren't aware of it. They think of Anne Rice, plantations, Mardi Gras, jazz, sure -- that was New Orleans a few decades ago. A lot of the city these days is a big ghetto. People just didn't hear about it until now.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Sep 3 2005, 12:07 PM']Sorry, but this is flat out stupid.  Florida was hit with 4 hurricanes, some of them hit repeatedly.  Immediate aid came from the Florida National Guard, not from out of State.  States have GOVENORS with the power to deploy the State's national guard for a reason.  Louisiana has some of the crappiest politics around, and they are blaming the President to divert blame from them.  The major media is overwhelmingly Democrat and by blaming the President and his Administration, it hurts the Republicans.  It's not just to destroy the current President, it's politics to get a Democratic President on the next election.
What?  Lousiana doesn't get hit often with hurricanes and they can't have a State plan without the Federal Government doing it?  That's news to Texas, Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas.  Do we not take into account the size of the damaged area and the emergency plans of the States?  Louisiana had a run through of their emergency plans less than a year ago but failed to implement their plan.  That's the Federal Government's fault?  The Mayor of NO has his headquarters a couple of miles away and he couldn't assign NO police to the Superdome?  That's the President's fault?  The Govenor of LA sent in 1,500 Guards and sent 0 to the Superdome.  That's the Federal Government's fault?
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Honestly, you're right in pointing out the failures of the mayor of New Orleans and governor of Louisiana in dealing with this disaster. With the way this has been mishandled, there's more than enough blame to go around.

However, with all due respect, this storm has done more damage in Louisiana and MIssissippi in a few short hours than the combined total of the four storms that hit Florida last year. You can't tell me that it's only due to the crack Florida National Guard that Pennsacola wasn't in the same situation as New Orleans is now after Ivan struck last year. The situation just wasn't as bad. The entire city wasn't flooded out.

From what I've been reading, NO police and LA guard units had more than enough to deal with in terms of the city outside the Superdome. When a state's reserves are exhausted, the idea is that the feds should be able to step in and help out. The NO mayor was sending out SOS's before federal forces were fully mobilized.

And on the topic of media bias, you're also right that the majority of mainstream media folks are Democrat. However, I am not convinced that the reporting of this disaster has been motivated out of a desire to harm the president or other Republicans in government. If it were me writing the story, I'd be asking the same questions as I've been seeing -- and I voted for Bush. Underneath all the politics and all the bickering that's going to take place as a result of this is a realization that there's been a colossal failure of government, at all levels. Most people could care less, really, who's in office, as long as their basic needs of safety, food, water, shelter, and clothing are met. When that doesn't happen, as is the case in New Orleans, we start asking what went wrong.

And, as I said, there's more than enough blame to go around.

[philothea]

Was going to say something but I see we're not in the debate area. Maybe I'll go start a topic there.

[philothea]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Sep 3 2005, 06:55 PM'][quote]Jazz and Blues and Gospel, sure, but no one associates criminals with that stuff, I guess.[/quote]
Compared to rap, how many jazz, blues and gospel singers sing explicit songs about pimpin', dealin', gang banging, guns and drugs?
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Well, yeah, that was my point. (I think. ) The article said NO was full of "gangsta rappers". Well... maybe. But that's not the music I think of when I hear New Orleans!

[Socrates]

I've talked to a friend who lives in New Orleans and had to evacuate. She said that there's actaully a lot of people coming together to help people out, and that people in New Orleans are very neighborly and help one another.
She had been involved in helping the victims.

This was a side of the story that simply isn't being reported in the media. (Violence and looting make much better headlines!)

[homeschoolmom]

Unfortunately, when people get thirsty they start getting irratable...

[Theologian in Training]

Man, what is going on? This is absolutely horrible....there are no words

[God's Errand Girl]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 3 2005, 08:18 AM']
Why are there no harsh words for the Governor of LA or the Mayor of New Orleans? Why only for Bush?

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Interesting point. The mayor was well aware of what % of his population was poor and elderly. Why did he not use various means, such as school buses or city buses to at least get these people out of the city?