ME A Schismatic? who are you kidding!

[zabbazooey]

I guess what I meant is that it's hard to not fall away from faith to Church and fall into sin.

[Colleen]

Sam,

I think that for a time it appeared that you were pretty confused about what you believed. You would say that you were sympathetic to the SSPX, but honestly, I don't think you really knew exactly what you were talking about.

I don't think you're schismatic. I think you see the beauty in the Tridentine rite and you wish you could see more of such Masses. I'm a bit concerned about where you've been getting your information from (SSPX, for example), but I think that may be due in part because you are confused about what you believe and where you can find the real truth. Well, the real Truth is here in the Catholic Church, not the SSPX or anywhere else.

Personally, I don't like the way that "Phishies" are sometimes treated here on Phatmass. Oftentimes it seems that there is a great lack of compassion, charity, and understanding with those who are part of the Phishy group. People see the label and begin to jump on them immediately. There are some in the group that I think really shouldn't be Phishy, for they have proven their loyalty to the Church, the Pope, and the Magisterium. I think sometimes people have too close an association with Traditionalists and schismatics. I think there's a very real difference between the two, and sometimes I think people are too quick to judge. I define Traditionalists as those who are completely loyal to Rome and cherish the Tridentine Mass as well as have a great appreciation for some of the more beautiful traditions of the Church which have been cast to the wayside for the past forty years or so. Schismatics are disloyal to Rome and I don't categorize them as Traditionalists.

So, Sam, I think you're a cool guy. I think you're a little misguided about some things and I think that there are things you need to be a little better educated on, but really, I like you. To be perfectly honest, you could be more charitable when you present your opinions. If you worked on that, I think more people would be willing to listen to what you have to say and not jump to (perhaps incorrect) conclusions about you.

I think that if you're really interested in more Traditionalist movements within the Church, you should check out [url="http://www.societycantius.org/SSJC-Home.htm"]The Society of St. John Cantius[/url], for example, whose [i]mission is to help Catholics rediscover a profound sense of the sacred through solemn liturgies, devotions, sacred art, sacred music, as well as instruction in Church heritage, catechetics, and Catholic culture. This mission is reflected in the Society's motto: Instaurare Sacrum (Restoration of the Sacred).[/i] They are a special men's religious community that have been given permission to form by Francis Cardinal George of Chicago. They are completely faithful to the Church and they also are very traditional (celebrating the Tridentine Mass along with the Pauline Mass).

I highly encourage you to stick around here at Phatmass because I think there's a lot you can learn. There are some members who have had to deal with people mixed up in the SSPX, so they may be able to help you understand better why that is not the way to go. Like I said before, there's really only one true way to Christ, and that's through the Catholic Church, headed by the Pope in Rome. (You should understand this, it's part of the meaning of your sn

And the last thing I wanted to say is that I think we all need to work on being more charitable and more humble with each other. Behind every screenname, there is a soul, a soul loved by God, a soul who needs to go to Heaven! So many times this seems to be forgotten. It's the internet, yes, but we're all real people engaging in real discussions. This being the Internet is no excuse for uncharitableness and pride.

I think we all realize that to win people's hearts and minds, this: really doesn't work. Hitting people over the head with our words really doesn't lead people to Christ. Compassion and sincere dialogue will.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

thanks colleen that was beatiful

[FlyLikeABird]

I said other. I think you're an interesting guy Sam, I'm not too sure about your allegiances but I'm not evena mod so what can I say?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Sep 4 2005, 11:09 PM']i thought it was either dust or jesus i wasn't sure

as for LD still a half victory.
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I think you're really cool.. I'm just not sure where you stand so I'm not sure if you're phishy or not. I just remember certain posts that's all, but maybe you were just wondering about certain radical traditionalist claims.. Maybe in time I'll grasp where you are at more.

Until then I must vote "other".. Sorry.

[Anastasia13]

For what it’s worth coming from me, I think you are a cool person, but you certainly have some growing to do. (And technically we all have room to grow.) You have a great deal of zeal for God and for truth. You are certainly not among those whom Christ would call lukewarm. I think that sometimes in our zeal for something good, we can dive in so that our shortcomings are shown. I know I’ve had that experience. That might not seem so great, but it is a time when, as long as we are humble and willing, God can teach and change us. I think all people long for a sense of being loved and accepted. While the journey in this life to become like Christ is not completed in a day no matter how much zeal we might have, with each day you grow in knowledge, wisdom and charity, when you express more and more your love for God in compassion for others and with growing understanding, I think that someday if you keep your zeal and your passion for God, you will be able to have such an impact on others for Christ that many who consider themselves Christian would be humbled. It is my earnest hope that you continue on that path because God will be able to do some great things through you.

Edited September 5, 2005 by Light and Truth

[oakleyswitch]

did jesus skate?

[RC_]

As a kid or as an adult?

[oakleyswitch]

either one...

[goldenchild17]

I voted other 'cause I don't know where you are on things. I'd like to know though.

[picchick]

It is dUst's opinion. I voted null because I still don't know everything that you believe and such.

[the_rev]

I attend the Latin Mass as well. I think it's beautiful, and look I'm Church Militant Sam!

Also I'd like to give Sam a good word, he is writing about the Latin Mass each week on my website. Check out his first artcile on the High Mass, we're doing what happens in the High Mass.

The Asperges

[url="http://www.avemarisstella.com/ams"]http://www.avemarisstella.com/ams[/url]

[Oik]

If you are in Baltomore, why don't you attend Saint Alphonsous Church?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Sep 5 2005, 12:12 AM']its hard.
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If it helps, I once had a HUGE problem with charity in apologetics and debates. Fr. Benedict Groeschel then met with me and the other semmies from Omaha to lead our retreat and told us, "men of the Church are wonderful...we love the Church...but better to be men of the Eucharist...if you love the Eucharist, you love the Church and Christ automatically"...or something along those lines.

In other words...we must not view things so dualistically. Orthodoxy is not defined as loving the fullness and hating that which falls short. It is defined as loving the fullness and [b][i]hating that which keeps the rest from the fullness[/i][/b]. In other words...love Protestants...love what Christianity they do hold...and hate Protestantism, that part which keeps them from being Catholic and having the fullness of the faith. Be their friend, acknowledge what they do have right, and then offer them more right answers, instead of just saying why the wrong answers are wrong. Remember that winning souls, not just arguments, is the goal.

I hate the abuses to the liturgy that unfortunately occur, but we can't hate the liturgy because of the abuses any more than I can hate you because you smell funny (okay, just made that up)...you're still an image of God...and Jesus is still present at Mass. Further, the Novus Ordo, without the unfortunate abuses, is absolutely beautiful. Go to one...I think you'll love it.

If God can smell of elderberries it up and reside even in imperfect people such as ourselves, and work through our pathetic attempts to please Him, then so we should associate with the lowly, with those who (in reality, like us) are imperfect, and so we should do the works God has chosen, even if we don't find them good enough.

Offer all through Mary's immaculate hands and all will be well.

[Laudate_Dominum]

and eat fried chicken!

[Apotheoun]

Preferring one liturgical celebration over another does not make a person "phishy." After all there are many liturgical rites and usages within the one Catholic Church.

That being said, as long as a man accepts the doctrine of the faith as it is taught by the Magisterium, both ordinary and extraordinary, and does so in accordance with the doctrinal patrimony of the [i]sui juris[/i] Church in which he is a member, then that man is fully orthodox and catholic.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Sep 5 2005, 12:00 AM']please say why.

also feel free to ask me any question about my state of so-called "schism"

i would greatly appreicaite the input of some of the phorums priests on this sentence and the state of my soul.

also i have rejected some of the stupid things that i have said in the past..
God Bless,

Sam
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I voted "other." I don't know if you're confused, or schismatic, or what. You do have a tendancy to say things that don't really reflect well on your orthodoxy. No one has a right to judge the state of your soul, but when you openly say things like "I haven't gone to confession in a long time because I refuse to go to a Novus Ordo priest" (I'm paraphrasing) it doesn't make you sound very orthodox, ya know? I DO believe that you're trying, though.

[p0lar_bear]

If you have a question or complaint about your status, email dUSt privately. Your status will not change because you put up a poll or solicit supporters. It is dUSt's decision.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i emailed Dust be he never emailed me back.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Oik' date='Sep 5 2005, 10:30 AM']If you are in Baltomore, why don't you attend Saint Alphonsous Church?
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I went to high mass their yesterday.

But its not where i usally am because its not in walking distance, bad neighboorhood, and i can't drive.