Vatican II

[Cam42]

[quote]The council made it clear that she no longer wanted a confessional state tied to a monarchy; it was high time to make peace with liberal democracy. Henceforth the Church does not impose but proposes the truth; she will not rely on the coercive machinery of the state.[/quote]

What is being said is that there should be a movement from the pope as monarch and absolute ruler, but rather the Magisterial teaching body (the pope) as servant of servants of God and (bishops) various shepherds.

It isn't so much that the pope can't, because he most certainly can dictate, but that should not be how he does this, he should present theology in a manner that teaches authentic growth through free will and free acceptance of the various dogma and doctrines.

What Pope Bl. John wanted to do was move away from the monarchal view of Pope Pius IX, but rather to a more open dialogue that included the modern world, without compromising the Church's Traditional teachings.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Sep 8 2005, 07:51 PM']I am sure that Dr. Hitchcock would disagree with that senitment.  He is hardly part of secular media....hmmmmm....
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Maybe he would, but remember this was intended for the greedy portion of the media who pushed their own agenda with little more intent than to mare the church or make a quick buck. I'm not certain the Dr. Hitchcock falls into this category. Do yoiu think so?

[Cam42]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Sep 9 2005, 12:12 PM']Maybe he would, but remember this was intended for the greedy portion of the media who pushed their own agenda with little more intent than to mare the church or make a quick buck.  I'm not certain the Dr. Hitchcock falls into this category.  Do yoiu think so?
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huh?????? I am not sure what you are saying.....

[Didacus]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Sep 9 2005, 11:16 AM']huh??????  I am not sure what you are saying.....
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Do you think that Dr.Hitchcock is one that tries to mare the church or make a quick buck from the events of Vatican II?

[Didacus]

After reading the third article, I must admit, I have a lot more reading to do than I thought. Seems the more I read, the more I [i]have[/i] to read.

I really loved the article though, anything that shows me further insight into JP the Great is a joy for me to read.


enough of that.........
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Now, here are my views (thus far, since I am not done 'educating myself' on Vatican II. Tell me what you think Cam42, and please let me know if I should be corrected.


Vatican II was a necessary transition of the Church into modern times in a manner of speaking. Modern times offered men/women a new outlook on nature and reality as a whole, and developed a critical sense that could no longer be satisfied by the current Church practices. Although the Church's dogma and doctrine was properly left unchanged, Vatican II goal was to address the practices of the Church, or the presentation of the church's message in order to better address the newly made critical sense of thinking of church members.

This 'new critical thought' came to materialize along with the industrial revolution, and the root cause of which can be dated back several centuries thereof. the French revolution and the pitiful treatment of clergy, onto the sexual revolution, I remain convinced, are mere symptoms of a more inner bound 'illness' of the soul that has afflicted humanity (industrialised more than others) since then. In this spirit, Vatican II attempted to address not only the 'critical thinking' of church members, but also their perception of the Church, Her role in the world, the personal role of each individual within her (either laity or clergymen or sister or other) as well as each individual's role from within Her onto the rest of the world.

In short, Vatican II aimed at rejuvenating the Church's relationship with her members and the world.


The manner in which the council fathers aimed to achieved this goal is, amongst countless others;

1. To make the celebration of mass more accessible to church goers.

2. To make Church dogmas and doctrine better understood, and thus invited a sort of dialogue with her laity members. This was to address a 'critical mind' that could no longer be satisfied with simply 'being told what to do', but also needed to 'know why such things should be done'.

3. Of the main outlooks called to change within Vatican II, was the misguided perception of obtaining salvation through following a mere set of rules. In this sense, all members of the Church have been called to 'mature' in their faith. Not to simply follow blindly their faith, but to understand it, apply it within their every day lives and more so, to embrace their faith in its wholeness and not just simply a 'to do list' necessary to obtain salvation.

Vatican II [b]did not [/b]aim to:

1. Change church dogmas or doctrine nor teachings.

2. Seek to simply re-affirm dogmas and doctrines that had already been set, nor to re-affirm in a manner better understandable by modern generations.

3. Seek to abolish tradition, although tradition was somewhat 'loosened'.
[i](I am not too certain about that last one, a little help if you will?)[/i]



The 60s:

Vatican II did not cause a revolution; it was reacting to an impending revolution that had prepared itself (for the least), long before the sexual revolution. From 1965 to 2005, a biblical generation no less, it is my growing belief that we have witnessed as the people of God, the summit of the 'culture of death' or the 'theology of liberation'.

The generation coming, 2005-2045, will not have to 'experience' the question as their parents have, because they will have witnessed the effects and the failed attempts to 'freedom' of the generation prior. The signs of things to come grow ever more evident to those who dared seek and know the world around them:

1. Extremes that defy common sense are found everywhere and all around; dropping populations, the plague of abortion reaching unspeakable proportions, homosexuality being passed as a 'common sense' right, movements such as VHMent that push the idea that the only moral choice for humanity is 'voluntary extinction' and the list can go on and on and on...

2. Camps are growing further and further apart, and more so, 'purifying' themselves. Protestants become Catholics, Catholics become Protestants; each on the basis of beliefs and ideologies. Those who believe the teachings of the Church are anchoring themselves within it, those who do not, are leaving her bosom.

3. As it is the nature of the young to rebel, the Church does not seem to be the dominant authority anymore. Thus in order to rebel, the young must now rebel against the seemingly new dominant force in the world, 'the theology of liberism'. What better way to rebel against that than to actually listen and try to find truth in the church?!



My personal prediction is that 40 years from now:

Vatican II will be held as not only a success, but also a brilliant move (inspired by the Holy Spirit) by the then Sainted John XXIII. Furthermore the teachings of Vatican II will be well understood, and applied as per the council father's spirit. John XXIII will happily be having tea with John-Paul the Great in heaven, and they will toast to a job well done. (Paul VI and St.Peter will be with them of course).

The theology of death will have lost force, all of its momentum, and will be as they are destined, a dying bunch. An entire generation of killing their infants, refusing to have children, not being able to children (gay marriage), killing their ill, assisting themselves into suicide and all those 'beautiful' ideas, will have taken their toll and few will be left to raise whatever rainbow flag they had once made the century before. Most of them old, barren, will be scratching their heads and pondering where they had gone wrong in life.

The Catholic Church will be renewed, having as much an old and venerable image as a young and vibrant one. Having held to their beliefs, and faith in Christ, they will have prospered through this new generation, and enjoying life to its fullest. The Church is Holy, the Church is Infallible, and the Church is eternal. Of this, Catholics remind themselves gleefully on every April festival in which they have dedicated 'Benedict XVI day'. Our good (then former) papa will have his Cup at John XXIII's table, along with the scores of other good and faithful friends in Christ.




[b]Stand tall, be strong, be faithful.[/b]