Questions my husband has

[Lil Red]

i need a thread that i can post questions my hubby poses to me. so here it is. sometimes i can't think of a good answer, so i need a place to put the questions and a place to find the answers. thank you!


can someone provide me with a [b]relatively simple[/b] explanation of the Trinity for my husband?

[Benedict]

More simple than the [url="http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html"]Athanasian Creed[/url]?

It is like Trinity gold . . . in Creed form.

A more basic explanation can be found in Frank Sheed's [u]Theology for Beginners[/u].

[franciscanheart]

red- that book is really good. i would definitely get it. someone got it for me and i loved it.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='Sep 6 2005, 05:09 PM']can someone provide me with a [b]relatively simple[/b] explanation of the Trinity for my husband?
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how about this from the catechism?:[list][b]252 [/b]The Church uses (I) the term "substance" (rendered also at times by "essence" or "nature") to designate the divine being in its unity, (II) the term "person" or "hypostasis" to designate the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the real distinction among them, and (III) the term "relation" to designate the fact that their distinction lies in the relationship of each to the others.

[b]The dogma of the Holy Trinity [/b]

[b]253 [/b]The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

[b]254 [/b]The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

[b]255 [/b]The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91


Footnotes:
83 Council of Constantinople II (553): DS 421.
84 Council of Toledo XI (675): DS 530:26.
85 Lateran Council IV (1215): DS 804.
86 Fides Damasi: DS 71.
87 Council of Toledo XI (675): DS 530:25.
88 Lateran Council IV (1215): DS 804.
89 Council of Toledo XI (675): DS 528.
90 Council of Florence (1442): DS 1330.
91 Council of Florence (1442): DS 1331.
92 St. Gregory of Nazianzus, Oratio 40,41: PG 36,417.
[/list]
for more on the trinity, see paragraphs [url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p2.htm"][b]232-267[/b][/url]

if that doesn't work for u, just let me know.

pax christi,
phatcatholic

Edited September 7, 2005 by phatcatholic

[Lil Red]

thanks everyone. i'll see what he has to say. there will be more questions, i'm sure.

[Jake Huether]

There were also some worthwhile posts here:

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=38839"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=38839[/url]

In particular by Apotheoun.

And you should also check out the Defense Directory:

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/search.php"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/search.php[/url]

God bless.

[White Knight]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='Sep 6 2005, 05:09 PM']i need a thread that i can post questions my hubby poses to me. so here it is. sometimes i can't think of a good answer, so i need a place to put the questions and a place to find the answers. thank you!
can someone provide me with a [b]relatively simple[/b] explanation of the Trinity for my husband?
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[/quote]


If you wanna avoid a huge theology debate, then just explain the Three leaf Clover or the Basics of Liquid, Solid, and Vapor.


Three Clover= Three different forms of God, all equal to one steam, therefore He is One. This was first brought up by Saint Patrick I think.

Liquid, Solid, Vapor= three forms of water, but all containing water H20.

[phatcatholic]

any more questions?

[Noel's angel]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 11 2005, 08:57 AM']
Three Clover= Three different forms of God, all equal to one steam, therefore He is One. This was first brought up by Saint Patrick I think.
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[/quote]

that's a myth

[Benedict]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Sep 11 2005, 07:15 AM']that's a myth[/quote]
It is a pious legend.

[azaelia]

I liked C.S. Lewis' explanation in Mere Christianity...like woah.

[StColette]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Sep 11 2005, 08:15 AM']  that's a myth
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[/quote]

But a good myth

[p-hawk]

[quote name='StColette' date='Sep 11 2005, 09:04 PM']But a good myth   
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[/quote]

The analogy between the trinity and the three-leaf clover breaks down too quickly, though. Leaves are parts, and persons aren't part of the trinity. The solid, liquid, vapor analogy holds more water (pun intended).

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 11 2005, 02:57 AM']Liquid, Solid, Vapor= three forms of water, but all containing water H20.
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[/quote]
This has always been a favorite of mine

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='p-hawk' date='Sep 20 2005, 12:23 AM']The analogy between the trinity and the three-leaf clover breaks down too quickly, though. Leaves are parts, and persons aren't part of the trinity. The solid, liquid, vapor analogy holds more water (pun intended).
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[/quote]
No analogy can capture it completely. Solid, liquid, vapor describes the consubstantiality of the Trinity reasonably well, but it the states of solid, liquid, and vapor are three different states of water, which seems to suggest modalism.

All analogies break down...you can only explain certain parts with certain analogies, but we can never make one that will work completely.

[Benedict]

That is why they call it ..........






























(wait for it) ........
































a mystery!

[shortnun]

I took a class on Thomas Aquinas once. And in our attempts to understand/explain the mystery that is the Trinity, this idea was brought forth. (Personally, I'm a visual learner, so I think that's one reason this image resounded so much for me.)

The Trinity is a cube. Go and find something that is a cube. Two sides opposite each other are the first person, and then two other sides opposide each other are the second person and so forth. I wish I had an image to post to help explain this idea. But this way there is no hiearchy within God and all persons are intrinsically reliant upon each other to maintain the shape of the cube.

Hope that helps. Bring on the questions!