Just got back from Confession...

[Thy Geekdom Come]

So as most of you know, I'm a scrupulant. I went into Confession and got to my second thing and the priest is like, "that's not a sin."

"What do you mean? It's in my examination of conscience booklet..."

"It's not a sin."

"Well, I'm a scrupulant, Father, so maybe..."

"Oh, now there's the problem. That's the biggest thing you've probably got to take care of. Most people get tripped up by that verse, "be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." That's the English. Do you know what the wording is in Greek?



Then he goes on to talk about how it actually says "become perfect" or "be perfected." About how it's a gradual process...about how I can't compare myself to others because I'm my own individual and God has a separate plan for me and this is part of my cross, etc. "You don't earn forgiveness, it's a gift. It doesn't depend on your worthiness, because you're not worthy."

"Well, Father...but there's this nagging that 'oh, that confession wasn't valid because...'"

"It's called 'absolution', not 'partialution', kid."



"You need more joy in your life. It's the second virtue. The first is love, but that's too complicated...we like to start with joy." "Anything else?"

So I confess a little more and he gives me a penance and says, "now fight the scruples, don't give in."

"So you're ordering me under obedience not to confess again things already confessed?"

"That's exactly it. Very important for scrupulants."





...I mean...ahem *cough*...

[theculturewarrior]

I want to go to confession.

[All For Jesus]

Don't you love being squeaky clean! The Sacrament of Reconciliation is sooo beautiful. Sounds like you have a good confessor!

[Cathurian]

Good deal Raphael! Sounds EXCELLENT! God bless you and your confessor.

[Birgitta Noel]

WOOT for that confessor! You need to hook up with him on a regular basis. :


OH CARP! I just realized I missed confession tonight! AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH.

That is NOT GOOD as I am NOT in a state of .


Sigh, how can I be so stoopid and lax?!

[zabbazooey]

I go to confession almost every Saturday....I love the Sacrament!

[Piccoli Fiori JMJ]

[quote name='Birgitta Noel' date='Sep 7 2005, 08:49 PM']WOOT for that confessor!  You need to hook up with him on a regular basis. :     
OH CARP!    I just realized I missed confession tonight!  AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH.

That is NOT GOOD as I am NOT in a state of  .
Sigh, how can I be so stoopid and lax?! 
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Hey, at least it hasn't been over a year since your last confession...

[ardillacid]

I thought you weren't supposed to say what the priest says in the confessional?

[Piccoli Fiori JMJ]

[quote name='ardillacid' date='Sep 7 2005, 09:08 PM']I thought you weren't supposed to say what the priest says in the confessional?
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The Priest isn't but if you really want to you can

[Fides_et_Ratio]

The confession times at the parish I like (with the cool REAL old-school confessionals) are when I'm at class during the week... so I have to go on the weekends-- which normally would be fine, but my mom always tries to go to Mass with me (which is good. but family gets a little touchy about me "hanging out too much with priests"... crazy non-practicing Catholics...)

[prose]

I have had a few priests stop me and say "That's not a sin".. I always find it weird and sorta uncomfortable.

[Birgitta Noel]

Yeah, me too, even when I knew I was in mortal sin. BUT, when you're a scrupulant you have to be very careful about discerning what a sin is and your scrupulosity may prevent you from discerning well.

That's unclear, maybe someone else can better explain it? Micah?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Birgitta Noel' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:49 PM']WOOT for that confessor!  You need to hook up with him on a regular basis. :     
OH CARP!    I just realized I missed confession tonight!  AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH.

That is NOT GOOD as I am NOT in a state of  .
Sigh, how can I be so stoopid and lax?! 
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Call a priest and set an appointment. No good reason to stay out of a state of .

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='FutureNunJMJ' date='Sep 7 2005, 11:01 PM']Hey, at least it hasn't been over a year since your last confession... 
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[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='ardillacid' date='Sep 7 2005, 11:08 PM']I thought you weren't supposed to say what the priest says in the confessional?
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Only the priest is bound by the seal of Confession.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='FutureNunJMJ' date='Sep 7 2005, 10:01 PM']Hey, at least it hasn't been over a year since your last confession... 
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Do you not have a church nearby or something??

[Old_Joe]

I've had a priest tell me that I shouldn't state personal problems, but I mentioned them anyway because it seemed to be a circumstance surrounding the sin.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Birgitta Noel' date='Sep 8 2005, 01:17 AM']Yeah, me too, even when I knew I was in mortal sin.  BUT, when you're a scrupulant you have to be very careful about discerning what a sin is and your scrupulosity may prevent you from discerning well. 

That's unclear, maybe someone else can better explain it?  Micah?
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Sure.

Scrupulosity is essentially a self-perpetuating, self-feeding legalistic take on God. It's not something I willfully fall into...I know in my intellect that God is "good and forgiving, full of love to all who call" on Him, but there is a cross I bear which is based on anxiety in the form of legalism (that is, anxiety is the substance, legalism is the form).

I say self-perpetuating and self-feeding because...well, let's say I commit a mortal sin and go to Confession. I make what I believe to be a good Confession, so then I leave the Confessional and at some point after, there's this little voice in my head that goes, "that Confession wasn't valid."

"What do you mean?!"

"You weren't really sorry. If you were really sorry, you would have mentioned every detail."

"That's just unreasonable...it would have taken hours and some of it is completely unnecessary to diagnose the soul."

"That kind of judgment should be up to the Confessor. You just left stuff out to deceive him. Lying to a Confessor is a mortal sin."



No matter how much I may try to fight this, there is always some shadow of a doubt...maybe, just maybe, I did mean to leave something out.

Personally, I think this mindset is largely to blame on Freudian psychology (which, ironically, was supposed to free men from the burden of Confession by getting to the root of their problem). We are all well aware that we may have unconscious motives, and I do not have the expertise to discern what is a conscious, willful action, and what is not. Therefore, I cannot find a firm foundation on which to defeat this line of thinking...for all I know, it could be correct.

It seems very silly to most people who don't suffer from scrupulosity, but for those of us who do, it's debilitating.

The reason is, as St. Alphonsus Ligouri and others have pointed out, that the scrupulous soul is so morally sound and detests sin so much and avoids it so well that Satan has few alternatives but to try to lead the soul to despair over nothing at all, simply by reminding the scrupulant of his *ability* to sin, and enticing an unreasonable fear in him that he may have sinned in a particular instance. Thus it is that Satan's favorite tactics are to bombard a man with temptations (most scrupulants center around sexual sin, interestingly...constantly worried that they've committed one, and it's no surprise, since sexuality is truly the whole central plan of our beings as humans) and convince him that these tempting thoughts were sins in themselves, or else to take venial sins and convince the sinner that he is damned to hell. If the sinner is brave enough to go to Confession, Satan is still not out of options...he can convince (especially those who know very well the requirements of Confession) that the Confession was invalid, and a sinner who has a more complex mental process will realize that the fact that he felt better after Confession had little to do with it, because if the logic points to the fact that there could, in some remote way, be a sin, then he is convinced of it.

At the core, it is an unintentional focus on trying to fulfill the law perfectly and thus to be justified, rather than to trust in the love and divine mercy of God for justification. A scrupulant may very well trust in the Divine Mercy, but Satan could say, "well, yes, God is merciful, but you have to accept His mercy, and to do that, you have to follow the letter of the law to a T." Even if a scrupulant has followed the letter of the law to a T, he worries that perhaps he hasn't, because the fear of hell is so strong in him that nothing can convince him to stop worrying.

Thus, it takes all his time and all his effort to make it through even a single minute without running out of the classroom or workplace screaming and casting himself into every thorny bush on the way to Confession.

It is, in short, a disease by with a man unintentially seeks to beaver dam himself, and is so concerned with finding fault in himself, because he lacks the humility to consider that maybe, just maybe, he isn't so horrible as he thinks he is.

Many of us can say that we look around us and see the plight of the human person in the morals of our society. Many of us say simply by seeing an unchaste television ad, "I feel dirty." So it is with a scrupulant whenever he is even remotely reminded of sin. The scrupulant is so obsessed with being perfect and pure and undefiled (all good *goals* but not good to expect of oneself immediately and at all times, although it should always be strived for) that he always feels dirty and thus wishes to condemn himself, even for the sins of others or for mere temptations.

Therefore, there is an intensive need of formation for scrupulous souls, especially in our society, where there is constant sin and constant scandal surrounding us. The time my scrupulosity was least active: when I was in seminary, 25 miles from a movie theater, in the country, and the nearest town was a convent. It makes sense...there was no great reason to cast myself down or to feel dirty. This, perhaps, is precisely why I can't read hearts : To do so would open before my eyes the gates of my hell.

St. Alphonsus Liguori, the patron of scrupulants, tells us a few things which don't make sense for non-scrupulants, but for scrupulants, make all the sense in the world:

(this one is not a direct quote, but the same idea...couldn't remember the exact one)

"If a soul which has the habitual will not to offend God is uncertain whether a sin has been committed, it is to be held as an absolute certainty that there is no sin whatsoever. This must be the constant mantra of the scrupulant: there is no sin."

In summary, a scrupulant would not forget such a sin because each and every sin carves so deeply into his soul that he would see such a mark at first glance with no effort.

It is also said that at a certain point in the lives of some saints, a mortal sin is simply unthinkable. They will not commit one. They could, but it would require such a conscious effort on their part that it would be very difficult...kinda like committing suicide...many people (myself included) have held knives to their throats and wondered...but not so many actually would do it, or even seriously consider it. It is similar for scrupulants. There comes a point in scrupulosity (though I don't think it's true of all scrupulants or even most, but of those who are most severe that they cannot live enough to be in the situation to commit a mortal sin ) where we are so protective of our souls that we would not give them for anything. This is a good thing...it shows that we recognize the worth of our own souls...but the motives are all wrong. Instead of being motivated by love of God, we're more motivated by fear of hell (though there is love of God involved, yes). This, however, does not keep Satan from convincing us that we are damned. Thus, the famous quote of Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen applies not only to nuns, but if scrupulants were to confess their true sins, and not just everything they felt guilty for, Confessors would complain that their confessions were like "having popcorn thrown at you." The difference is that a nun is virtuous because she loves God...a scrupulant simply fears Him (but strongly, strongly desires to love Him, and through bearing the cross of scrupulosity, does love Him very much, as the Church Fathers maintained...willing to love God is loving God). Rejoice that you do not have this cross to bear...you can love more easily and be certain that you love.

Another quote from St. Alphonsus Ligouri (this one is a straight quote):

'And why do you fear that God may not have pardoned you? The holy Fathers say that he who hates the sins he has committed is sure of forgiveness from God; and, besides, it is certain, as St. Teresa says, that 'he who is resolved to die rather than offend God is, without a doubt, penitent for his past offences against him.'"

And another:

"Mortal sin is so horrible a monster that it is impossible for a sin of this kind to be in the soul, without the soul's being aware of it. No sinner who is without God's grace has any doubts about it, but is certain that he has lost it; and therefore it is an established maxim with all the masters of the spiritual life that when a person who fears God doubts whether he has lost the divine grace, it is certain that he has not lost it; for the very reason that no one loses God without knowing it for certain; and thus, whenever you are in doubt about having lost God, be sure that you have not lost him."

[Old_Joe]

perhaps you should mention longwindedness next time :

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Old_Joe' date='Sep 8 2005, 09:36 AM']perhaps you should mention longwindedness next time :
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