Kinds of Heretics

[Anastasia13]

To start, what were the two kinds?

[phatcatholic]

formal and material

[Anastasia13]

Difference being?

[phatcatholic]

an answer from a couple different sources:

[url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd03897.htm"][b]1910 New Catholic Dictionary[/b][/url]:[list]One who having professed the faith of Christ corrupts its dogmas. He may be a material heretic, adhering to heresy innocently or from involuntary causes, or a formal heretic, knowingly and freely adhering to heresy. One who holds opinions at variance with recognized teachings in philosophy, science, or art; since the term is somewhat odious, it is more properly applied to the originators of heresy than to their descendants and remote followers.
[/list][url="http://www.therealpresence.org/dictionary/hdict.htm"][b]Pocket Catholic Dictionary[/b][/url]:[list]. . . . Objectively, therefore, to become a heretic in the strict canonical sense and be excommunicated from the faithful, one must deny or question a truth that is taught not merely on the authority of the Church but on the word of God revealed in the Scriptures or sacred tradition. Subjectively a person must recognize his obligation to believe. If he acts in good faith, as with most persons brought up in non-Catholic surroundings, the heresy is only material and implies neither guilt nor sin against faith. (Etym. Latin haeresis, from the Greek hairesis, a taking, choice, sect, heresy.)
[/list][url="http://eapi.admu.edu.ph/bodega/glossary.htm"][b]Catholic Glossary[/b][/url]:[list]. . . . Now, the obstinate post-baptismal denial or doubt by a Catholic of any truth which must be believed as a matter of divine and Catholic faith (c. 751, of Canon Law). Formal heresy involves deliberate resistance to the authority of God who communicates revelation through Scripture and tradition and the teaching authority of the Church. . . .
[/list][url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm"][b]New Advent Encyclopedia[/b][/url]:[list]. . . . The heretical tenets may be ignorance of the true creed, erroneous judgment, imperfect apprehension and comprehension of dogmas: in none of these does the will play an appreciable part, wherefore one of the necessary conditions of sinfulness--free choice--is wanting and such heresy is merely objective, or material. On the other hand the will may freely incline the intellect to adhere to tenets declared false by the Divine teaching authority of the Church. The impelling motives are many: intellectual pride or exaggerated reliance on one's own insight; the illusions of religious zeal; the allurements of political or ecclesiastical power; the ties of material interests and personal status; and perhaps others more dishonourable. Heresy thus willed is imputable to the subject and carries with it a varying degree of guilt; it is called formal, because to the material error it adds the informative element of "freely willed". . . .
[/list][url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#817"][b]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/b][/url] [notes are mine]:[list][b]817[/b] In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church [[b]note:[/b] formal heretics] - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:[list]Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
[/list][b]818[/b] "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ [[b]note:[/b] material heretics], and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272


[i]Footnotes:
269 UR 3 § 1.
270 Cf. CIC, can. 751.
271 Origen, Hom. in Ezech. 9,1:PG 13,732.
272 UR 3 § 1.[/i]
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i hope that helps

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[Anastasia13]

As a Protestant, I am a material heretic?

But not a formal heretic?

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Sep 9 2005, 01:11 AM']As a Protestant, I am a material heretic?

But not a formal heretic?
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correct

[Anastasia13]

Does one have to have been Catholic to be a formal heretic?
Is there any way other than converting and then changing that I could become a formal heretic?

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Sep 9 2005, 01:42 AM']Does one have to have been Catholic to be a formal heretic?
Is there any way other than converting and then changing that I could become a formal heretic?
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here are the necessary qualifications for formal heresy, again from the [url="http://www.therealpresence.org/dictionary/hdict.htm"][b]Pocket Catholic Dictionary[/b][/url]:[list]In the Roman Catholic Church, heresy has a very specific meaning. Anyone who, after receiving baptism, while remaining nominally a Christian, pertinaciously denies or doubts any of the truths that must be believed with divine and Catholic faith is considered a heretic. Accordingly four elements must be verified to constitute formal heresy; previous valid baptism, which need not have been in the Catholic Church; external profession of still being a Christian, otherwise a person becomes an apostate; outright denial or positive doubt regarding a truth that the Catholic Church has actually proposed as revealed by God; and the disbelief must be morally culpable, where a nominal Christian refuses to accept what he knows is a doctrinal imperative.
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[Cam42]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Sep 9 2005, 02:11 AM']As a Protestant, I am a material heretic?

But not a formal heretic?
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L&T,

I wrote a tract on this a while back. [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=19633"]Protestantism as Heresy[/url].

I think that this gives a pretty expansive response to your question.

[quote]Protestantism is a Christian heresy that has flourished since the sixteenth century after Christ. It says that man is saved by faith alone (sola fide), and not by works, and that the sole authority for doctrine is the Bible alone (sola scriptura), not any pope or council of bishops or tradition, however ancient or hallowed. It interpreted the Bible in such a way that the Catholic priesthood was no longer necessary.[/quote]

[quote]The Church expressly distinguishes between "formal" and "material" heretics. A "formal" heretic rejects the Church and its teaching absolutely and with full deliberation; a "material" heretic rejects the Church from lack of knowledge, being influenced by false prejudice or by an anti-Catholic upbringing.[/quote]

While you are a material heretic, one doesn't go around calling Protestants who live today, as such. The reason being that the term "heretic" has become synonmous with formal heresy.

In an academic sense, yes, we can call you a heretic, but I don't think that we are going to be writing any papers about your Christian journey. So, to apply the term heretic to you, in particular, while accurate, is bad form.

We, as Catholics, should not run around saying things like: "Look at 'Protestant X,' s/he is a heretic."

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Sep 9 2005, 06:38 AM']L&T,

I wrote a tract on this a while back. [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=19633"]Protestantism as Heresy[/url].

I think that this gives a pretty expansive response to your question.
While you are a material heretic, one doesn't go around calling Protestants who live today, as such.  The reason being that the term "heretic" has become synonmous with formal heresy.

In an academic sense, yes, we can call you a heretic, but I don't think that we are going to be writing any papers about your Christian journey.  So, to apply the term heretic to you, in particular, while accurate, is bad form.

We, as Catholics, should not run around saying things like:  "Look at 'Protestant X,' s/he is a heretic."
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The whole concept of formal heretic in some explanations is hard to understand. How can one reject what he knows to be true unless somehow he is dissuaded from it? How can one knowingly reject what he believes to be true without great conviction or the reality of what he knows to be true being somehow revealed when he knows better than the lies which he claims unless he has so hardened himself against his conscience so that he holds almost no sway over his convictions? I don't understand.

I realize that the heretic thing is bad form, (though if there is a heretic quiz as was mentioned a while back I will use a heretic avatar) but I was curious about academic classification.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Sep 9 2005, 12:47 AM']here are the necessary qualifications for formal heresy, again from the [url="http://www.therealpresence.org/dictionary/hdict.htm"][b]Pocket Catholic Dictionary[/b][/url]:[list]In the Roman Catholic Church, heresy has a very specific meaning. Anyone who, after receiving baptism, while remaining nominally a Christian, pertinaciously denies or doubts any of the truths that must be believed with divine and Catholic faith is considered a heretic. Accordingly four elements must be verified to constitute formal heresy; previous valid baptism, which need not have been in the Catholic Church; external profession of still being a Christian, otherwise a person becomes an apostate; outright denial or positive doubt regarding a truth that the Catholic Church has actually proposed as revealed by God; and the disbelief must be morally culpable, where a nominal Christian refuses to accept what he knows is a doctrinal imperative.

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Why am I not morally culpable?

I always thought of nominal Christians not as refusing to accept certain significant doctrines but more like those faithful (<-sarcasm) twice a year church goers or Sunday only "Christians" or others who say they believe but don't really live it.

[Anastasia13]