too much emphasis on rubrics?

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/todaystake/index.htm"]http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/todaystake/index.htm[/url]

Remember this is not the Catholic Register { the good guys ], but the reporter [the not so good guys ]

Edited September 14, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[Colleen]

[quote]I have to question how a focus on folding linens to catch crumbs and keeping the unordained out of the sanctuary until the right time will lead us to a Jesus who preached the Beautitudes and lived a healing ministry. [/quote]
This makes me sad because it shows such a lack of understanding about the respect that should be shown to Jesus, who is truly present in the Eucharist.

[Era Might]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Sep 13 2005, 10:06 PM'][url="http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/todaystake/index.htm"]http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/todaystake/index.htm[/url]

Remember this is not the Catholic Register  { the good guys ], but the reporter [the not so good guys   ]
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[/quote]

Otherwise known as the NCD (National Catholic Distorter).

[MC Just]

yeah lets just have priests dressed up like a clowns and consecrating donuts. God is love, that means all is well and we can do whatever we want and were never wrong!! yay!

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

look at this mass:

Church of St. Andrä, Graz, Austria. The photo shows the Good Friday Liturgy. During Holy Week, when there should be no images and certainly not of a skull. Christ on the Cross is uncovered on Good Friday. The participants in this liturgy were given 3D glasses. Later on in this liturgy a man and woman, back to back and totally naked were projected on the same screen. They extended their arms as if they were being crucified.

This looks like a black mass - although to be honest I don't konw what a black mass might look like, but this is how I would imagine it looking!
More bizarreness from this parish here here

[img]http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4249/444/400/Skullworship.jpg[/img]

[son_of_angels]

[quote]The other night, I went to a parish meeting called to instruct eucharistic ministers in new liturgical guidelines. I found it worrisome.
[/quote]

Awww...imagine that, fulfilling competently the work of a priest can be worrisome. Who'da thunk it?

Such priests need to worry less about being worried and the stress involved with pastoral ministry and to instead focus on doing what's right.

[Era Might]

Wow, that Church is beautiful.

I'm not sure what the context of the skull is, but it's not necessarily anything bad. It could be a local custom or some legitimate expression of death (a skull is commonly found in the icons and statues of Saints, symbolizing death).

Can't go on much with just a picture (particularly when the Church is so beautiful).

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

its not........

its modern art

3d glasses?b

[MC Just]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Sep 13 2005, 09:51 PM']look at this mass:

Church of St. Andrä, Graz, Austria. The photo shows the Good Friday Liturgy. During Holy Week, when there should be no images and certainly not of a skull. Christ on the Cross is uncovered on Good Friday. The participants in this liturgy were given 3D glasses. Later on in this liturgy a man and woman, back to back and totally naked were projected on the same screen. They extended their arms as if they were being crucified.

This looks like a black mass  - although to be honest I don't konw what a black mass might look like, but this is how I would imagine it looking!
More bizarreness from this parish here here

[img]http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4249/444/400/Skullworship.jpg[/img]
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[/quote]


umm that is twisted and definitely not right.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Sep 13 2005, 10:54 PM']its not........

its modern art

3d glasses?b
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How do you know? Have you studied Austrian Liturgical history? Are you a member of the parish.

Don't judge a book by its cover alone, as they say.

The skull is certainly not completely out of place. It is, after all, Good Friday, a day of death, which the skull traditionally represents.

Edited September 14, 2005 by Era Might

[MC Just]

from the picture it looks like they are worshipping death. How is that not out of place in a Catholic parish. s

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

how about what the priest from that parish says?

the parish and their priest have certainly crossed the border into wierd and unusual territory. The parish prides itself (and pride is the word) on being a centre for modern "art". The parish priest claims (and claim is the word) also to be also an art historian and artist. No art historian would barbarise such a beautiful Church.

However, he states, "The artistic interventions stand as temporary installations and performances associated with the liturgy or separated in a targeted dialogue with the Church area, which should be understood as a spiritually defined area of God and humankind".

[img]http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4249/444/400/Mr%20Bader.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos1.blogger.com/img/3/1291/400/Duress%20is%20without%20direction.jpg[/img]

[Era Might]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Sep 13 2005, 11:01 PM']from the picture it looks like they are worshipping death.  How is that not out of place in a Catholic parish. s
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Some might say the same when Catholics go up and venerate a cross on Good Friday.

Look, I'm not defending the skull. It just has no context. It's not something that is amazingly out of place. If you're going to condemn it, you need to provide some context.

[Era Might]

btw, if you think the skull is weird, you should see the old Churches in Europe that are made up of real bones. There are literally bones everywhere you look, all over the place, skulls included.

Edited September 14, 2005 by Era Might

[cappie]

[i]One thing that most people would not contenance was keeping the priest in the sanctuary during the sign of peace. This parish is fairly subdued; the sign of peace doesn't look like a melee. But still people wanted to know, as one woman asked, "Father why wouldn't you come out and greet us?" [/i]

Big deal I have been a priest for 22 years and have [b]never[/b] left the sanctuary. I don't need to wander through the church, I dont need to congratulate people or thank them for coming to Mass :

[i]At least some of the people at the meeting seemed to have missed the point -- or didn't know -- that these guidelines were not from a locally hired liturgist who would be enamored of another way of doing things next year. [/i]
These rules come straight from Rome, and the local bishop is ardently enforcing them.

So he should.

[i]The big question then became: Where should they stand so communion can proceed smoothly and quickly. Several options were examined and then the decision made. Ministers would come forward near the end of the sign of peace, collect the ciboria for distribution of the bread and extra hosts from the tabernacle if necessary, and form three lines in the alcove where the tabernacle resides. They wait there until after the priest serves himself and then they move into the sanctuary[/i]

My question in this is how do the ministers go to Holy Communion if they are already holding something i.e. the ciboria in their hands.

[i]The proper technique for folding the corporal (the white cloth under the communion vessels). So that the precious crumbs can be disposed of properly. [/i]

Ofcourse that's important. I have seen some priests pick up the corporal and shake it like a table cloth
I have instructed the ministersd in my parish for the past 15 years and have never had a problem telling them the correct way to fold the corporal.

I think we have to be careful to avoid the kind of legalism that was present in Jesus' day but that's no excuse for sloppy and uninformed celebration of the greatest act and miracle in our history :

[Era Might]

Pope Benedict made a good point when he was interviewed on EWTN. Obedience to rubrics should not be a mere "legal positivism", but a reverence for the Liturgy which recognizes that it is given to us by Christ through the Church. It is not ours to change here and there to suit our own whims. It belongs to the Universal Church.

Edited September 14, 2005 by Era Might

[cappie]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Sep 14 2005, 01:16 PM']Pope Benedict made a good point when he was interviewed on EWTN. Obedience to rubrics should not be a mere "legal positivism", but a reverence for the Liturgy which recognizes that it is given to us by Christ through the Church. It is not ours to change here and there to suit our own whims. It belongs to the Universal Church.
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[Era Might]

I found some pictures of one of the old European bone Churches.

[url="http://www.ludd.luth.se/~silver_p/kutna-1.html"]http://www.ludd.luth.se/~silver_p/kutna-1.html[/url]

Here's the monstrance:

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/eremite_85/16.jpg[/img]

Edited September 14, 2005 by Era Might

[stargirl3:16]

That's, um, interesting...

[Theoketos]

[quote]I have to question how a focus on folding linens to catch crumbs and keeping the unordained out of the sanctuary until the right time will lead us to a Jesus who preached the Beautitudes and lived a healing ministry.[/quote]

Can this not be anything but a joke?

Obediance is a virtue.

What a nerd.