Is God cruel?

[RC_]

I know that God is powerful, and that He is loving, but I often see what could be considered cruality. Is this not from God, or am I misunderstanding?

I guess I'm saying that God will throw us into the fire to get the best out of us. In doing this, is God being cruel?

[White Knight]

God's Ways are higher than our ways.

[infinitelord1]

lol...........this is something that i struggle with. No i dont believe god is cruel. I think the evil things that occur are allowed by god and not at all committed by him. There is only one problem i have with god........when people suffer he continuously allows them to suffer. He doesnt intervene at all. Some say that he does............i dont really know what to think. Most would who are catholic would probably say that god isnt helping you because you havent given into him........but i still dont know what to think personally. Maybe if you did give into god then he might intervene........i just dont know exactly how this is done. Maybe by just trying to do good and cutting back on things that you do that are bad.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Is your father cruel when he punishes you for a sin? Or is he evil when he makes you eat healthy food and get exercise?

Our training under God is a lot more rigorous, but it's the same concept.

[Don John of Austria]

God is a ____________. He 's God he's allowed. Where were we when He created the world.

God is not always fair, God is always Just. The differance is important, and God as already said Gods ways are not our ways we cannot comperhend them, sometimes it seems that God is in fact cruel, and from our point of view He is, but our point of view does not encompass everything, His does.

[ofpheritup]

That is a question that I still sometimes still struggle with.
My answer for the most part is that the things I see and wonder about are things that happen as a consequence of our (if not the world's) sin.

Out of all the news media I have heard about Katrina only one person has brought up the idea that it is a consequence of sin.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='ofpheritup' date='Sep 14 2005, 03:11 PM']That is a question that I still sometimes still struggle with.
My answer for the most part is that the things I see and wonder about are things that happen as a consequence of our (if not the world's) sin.

Out of all the news media I have heard about Katrina only one person has brought up the idea that it is a consequence of sin.
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The Bishop of N.O. did, but he was cut off by the interviewer.

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 14 2005, 03:14 PM']The Bishop of N.O. did, but he was cut off by the interviewer.
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IT FIGURES. People in my city look at me like I'm nuts when I bring it up. I bring it up anyway.

When I put my mind to something I am kind of hard to SHUT UP.
Just ask my mommy.

[Sirklawd]

sometimes i think of it like this: people suffer and ask God for help. I think God chooses to NOT snap his fingers and miraculously help us because suffering is an oppertunity for other people in the world to do good things. that may have come out wrong, but isn't one of the reasons we are here to love and help eachother? how could we do that if God did it all for us.

ofcourse when good people choose to do good thats God right there working through them.

so ya, idunno what to think about God causing such disasters because of sin. the idea that sin itself caused bad things to happen is interesting though... do other people know about this sorta thing?

[Era Might]

When a child goes for a shot with his mother, he weeps and wails and can't understand why she lets a strange man stick him with a big sharp needle. He can't understand why the pain is necessary. He hasn't yet comprehended the greater reality around him. Shots are necessary for his health, even though they're painful. He can't see the reward. He only sees the pain.

This is how God is. Because of our fallen nature, we can't perceive the greater supernatural reality around us. All we see is the pain and suffering. We can't understand why our Father is letting it happen. But he has a plan. and someday, when we die, we will be free from our limitations. We will see everything as God sees it. We will realize that everything he did or allowed was for our good.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Era Might

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Sep 15 2005, 03:10 PM']When a child goes for a shot with his mother, he weeps and wails and can't understand why she lets a strange man stick him with a big sharp needle. He can't understand why the pain is necessary. He hasn't yet comprehended the greater reality around him. Shots are necessary for his health, even though they are painful. He can't see the reward. He only sees the pain.

This is how God is. Because of our fallen nature, we can't perceive the greater supernatural reality around us. All we see is the pain and suffering. We can't understand why our Father is letting it happen. But he has a plan. and someday, when we die, we will be free from our limitations. We will see everything as God sees it. We will realize that everything he did or allowed was for our good.
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Will we see things as God see's them? I think thats a bit to strong, still I thinkwe will certianly have a better understanding.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 15 2005, 04:14 PM']Will we see things as God see's them? I think thats a bit to strong, still I thinkwe will certianly have a better understanding.
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Of course. We shall see God himself as he is. How much more will we see our lives for what they were.

[Semalsia]

[quote name='Era Might']He can't see the reward. He only sees the pain.[/quote]

So what's the reward for getting raped and severely beaten up?

[Era Might]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Sep 15 2005, 05:02 PM']So what's the reward for getting raped and severely beaten up?
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For those who have faith, their santification.

Pain and suffering are unintelligible except through faith. If man is just another stupid animal, his pain has no purpose. But we know better. Man is not just another stupid animal. He is created in the image and likeness of God. If the Lord himself became like us and accepted pain, suffering, and ultimately death, who are we to seek to escape it?

In "Crossing the Threshold of Hope", John Paul II makes a beautiful point about how the Passion of Christ was, in a certain sense, the only way he could justify himself before humanity. The Lord does not remain far off, expecting us to save ourselves. He is Emmanuel, God with us. His answer to our questions was not intellectual. It was personal. He shows us that suffering has meaning by voluntarily taking it upon himself.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Era Might

[Good Friday]

[mod]Nathan is mad[/mod]

[Era Might]

I'm gonna pretend you didn't just blaspheme my God like that.

No I'm not.

You need to be banned.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Era Might

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I hope your unavoidable banning helps lead you to the truth.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Sep 15 2005, 04:58 PM']For those who have faith, their santification.

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I think you've gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off the deep end there. If I told that to a rape victim I would fully expect to get a good right cross to the ole schnozzola.

My whole thought on this topic is as follows: not all suffering is caused by God. Sometimes it is a direct effect of either ourselves or other people doing something that should not be done. We need to look there first before blaming God, because if everyone in the world listened to God and followed His commandments, a good portion of the suffering in the world would be alleviated.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Sep 15 2005, 06:10 PM']I think you've gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off the deep end there.  If I told that to a rape victim I would fully expect to get a good right cross to the ole schnozzola.

My whole thought on this topic is as follows:  not all suffering is caused by God.  Sometimes it is a direct effect of either ourselves or other people doing something that should not be done.  We need to look there first before blaming God, because if everyone in the world listened to God and followed His commandments, a good portion of the suffering in the world would be alleviated.
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I did not say all suffering is CAUSED by God.

I said the reason God allows suffering is our sanctification.

Yes, even rape, or murder, or genocide, is allowed for our holiness. If we only knew that every last bit of suffering in our lives has eternal value, we would not hold it so lightly.

The attempted rape of St. Maria Goretti, for example, allowed her to evidence the supreme proof of love: martyrdom.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Era Might

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Sep 15 2005, 06:13 PM']I did not say all suffering is CAUSED by God.

I said the reason God allows suffering is our sanctification.

Yes, even rape, or murder, or genocide, is allowed for our holiness. If we only knew that every last bit of suffering in our lives has eternal value, we would not hold it so lightly.

The attempted rape of St. Maria Goretti, for example, allowed her to evidence the supreme proof of love: martyrdom.
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Yes, I would agree with this.

However, I don't think that it's pastorally wise to bring this up near the beginning of any grief counseling. It should be much closer to the end.