LittleLes Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Sep 15 2005, 10:53 AM']The fact is that you don't understand Catholicism . You don't understand the Bible and you don't understand the Papacy. I am simply not sure that we should be given forum to formal heretics when Jude says "they must be silenced". Authority in the Catholic Church is not dictatorial. Further the Pope while he is the supreme pontiff, does not excercise that authority in such a manner that local bishops have no authority. Peter in scripture, when the apostles are asked a question, answers for the group and his answers are James states his decision in Acts 15. This does not mean the other Apostles were to be submissive to HIS decision. Acts 15 operates like a normal council today. Popes do not make all the decisions at councils. Peter's wordson the matter of circumcision is highly regarded and the issue is decided after his speach. That is what the council was called for. James speaks on a different issue, that of sacrificing meat to idols. When he speaks his mind they all agree afterwards. There is no indication that ANYONE had to vote on Peter's statement regarding circumcision. I simply am amazed at the number of haters of the true Catholic faith (that is what you are lester) who cannot see that two issue are being decided. As for this second century bull dung, Clement of Rome is acting in a very authoritative manner WHEN JOHN THE APOSTLE IS ALIVE! Regarding the Corinthians. If that isn't evidence for the papacy I don't know what is. Further other writings indicate wide acceptance of his work as authoritative. Blessings [right][snapback]724284[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: (1) The "you don't understand..." ploy really means that the sayer has no adequate explanation. (2) Today's heresy is tomorrow's orthodoxy! : (Look at Athenasius and Aquinas-both accused of teaching heresy). (3) Acts 15 :19 "It is my judgment, therefore, " James, the Brother of Jesus, makes the judgment, not Peter who wasn't bishop of the first Christian community. And if you read Galatians, you'll find that Peter is afraid of the "people from James", the real boss! (4) Again, Clement's Epistle to the Corinthians locates Paul in the east and west - in fact the far extreme of the west - and has him martyred under the Romans. But Peter is not described as being in the west or being martyred under the Romans, perhaps because he was in the east? LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I am not going to debate a wolf in sheeps clothing nor answer a geniuses folly. I don't think you should be on this board as you are still debating Catholics with false theology. Your a heretic. There is no way your liberal agenda will become the norm for Church teaching and you distort what went on with athanasius but what's new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Sep 15 2005, 11:41 AM']I should add that Peter does not make such a claim because it is simply recognized by the early Church. Peter's prominence in scripture is enough evidence. He is always mentioned first in lists of the Apostles. [/quote] RESPONSE: No. Not "always" and certainly not when James is present, but this a false argument apologists frequently use hoping that their readers won't check. Gal 2: 9 " and when they recognized the grace bestowed upon me, James and Kephas and John who were reputed to be pillars...." Note: James is first. Peter does not make "such a claim" because it is simply NOT recognized by the early Church. Peter might have been chief of the Apostles, but that is a different matter than leadership in the early Christian community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I publically rebuke your wicked lies and distortions of the truth. I have had enough of them. This board needs to give you the boot. You fool noone with your twisting of scripture to your own destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Sep 15 2005, 01:10 PM']I am not going to debate a wolf in sheeps clothing nor answer a geniuses folly. I don't think you should be on this board as you are still debating Catholics with false theology. Your a heretic. There is no way your liberal agenda will become the norm for Church teaching and you distort what went on with athanasius but what's new. [right][snapback]724391[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Wait a second! Some Catholic on this board recently stated I was an "apostate." That's different than a heretic. Are you debating another Catholic's views? Are you saying that Athenasius was never excommunicated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Your debating Catholics again about orthodox theology. I am proposing to the board that you be removed. You have been suspended for this behavior before and persist in it. This board should not be for Catholics who persist in public heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Sep 15 2005, 01:19 PM']Your debating Catholics again about orthodox theology. I am proposing to the board that you be removed. You have been suspended for this behavior before and persist in it. This board should not be for Catholics who persist in public heresy. [right][snapback]724402[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: You are a little confused here. I'm told by a good Catholic on this board that I'm an "apostate." If I'm an apostate, I'm not Catholic, so there is no problem with me debating Catholics on this board. On the other hand, if you as a Catholic are challenging the Catholic who stated that I was an apostate, you, not I, a humble apostate, are in violation of board rules. See how absurd this becomes. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Enough with the semantics - debate already or this thread is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 (edited) [quote name='LittleLes' date='Sep 15 2005, 01:56 PM']RESPONSE: You are a little confused here. I'm told by a good Catholic on this board that I'm an "apostate." If I'm an apostate, I'm not Catholic, so there is no problem with me debating Catholics on this board. On the other hand, if you as a Catholic are challenging the Catholic who stated that I was an apostate, you, not I, a humble apostate, are in violation of board rules. See how absurd this becomes. : [right][snapback]724457[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Your intellect is truly dizzying. There is no humility in you that I have seen. The humble subit to the Church. You submit to your wicked lies that bring about destruction on yourself and the unsuspecting. You claim Catholicism. Therefore you should be banned for your persistent countering and underming of Catholic dogma. Edited September 15, 2005 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Sep 15 2005, 03:06 PM']Your intellect is truly dizzying. There is no humility in you that I have seen. The humble subit to the Church. You submit to your wicked lies that bring about destruction on yourself and the unsuspecting. You claim Catholicism. Therefore you should be banned for your persistent countering and underming of Catholic dogma. [right][snapback]724538[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: What I am doing is separating fact and fiction in Catholicism. For example, scripture, tradition, and the Church all teach that the earth is fixed on its foundations by God and cannot be moved. Ps 104:5 "You fixed the earth on its foundation, never to be moved." From the Holy Office: "The proposition that the earth is not the center of the world, nor immovable, but that it moves, and also with a diurnal action, is also absurd, philosophically false, and, theologically considered, at least erroneous in faith." So, I'm afraid that if you believe that the earth moves, you are in heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 (edited) [quote name='LittleLes' date='Sep 15 2005, 04:19 PM']RESPONSE: What I am doing is separating fact and fiction in Catholicism. For example, scripture, tradition, and the Church all teach that the earth is fixed on its foundations by God and cannot be moved. Ps 104:5 "You fixed the earth on its foundation, never to be moved." From the Holy Office: "The proposition that the earth is not the center of the world, nor immovable, but that it moves, and also with a diurnal action, is also absurd, philosophically false, and, theologically considered, at least erroneous in faith." So, I'm afraid that if you believe that the earth moves, you are in heresy. [right][snapback]724647[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Ah lester the doctrine molester goes for an obscure statement, no context, by the Holy Office. The above statement was not dogma. You call infallibility, the assumption, and many other dogmas fiction! You undermine them and put yourself as a little god with your damnable heresy. You have no right within the Church to do so. You hate the truth and exchange it for a lie. You must be banned for yoru sake as for the boards. You are a viper. If you don't like what the Church teaches do us a favor and get the hell out. If the mods wish to reprimand me for my stiff opposition to a twister and distorter of scripture that is their perogative. Ban the fool or ban me. Edited September 15, 2005 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Sep 15 2005, 04:26 PM']Ah lester the doctrine molester goes for an obscure statement, no context, by the Holy Office. The above statement was not dogma. You call infallibility, the assumption, and many other dogmas fiction! You undermine them and put yourself as a little god with your damnable heresy. You have no right within the Church to do so. You hate the truth and exchange it for a lie. You must be banned for yoru sake as for the boards. You are a viper. If you don't like what the Church teaches do us a favor and get the hell out. If the mods wish to reprimand me for my stiff opposition to a twister and distorter of scripture that is their perogative. Ban the fool or ban me. [right][snapback]724665[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: (1) I'm afraid that the earth not moving was indeed once dogma by way of the constant teaching of the ordinary universal magisterium and the infallible teaching that the Church always interpreted scripture correctly. Those doubting this were heretics. As was Galileo. Read what he was charged with and why. (2) But notice that what was once heresy is now orthodoxy. Unless you want to continue to maintain that the earth does not move. (3) Aren't you calling for me to burned at the stake, too? As a good Catholic you once had to believe - under pain of excommunication - that the burning of heretics was the will of the Holy Spirit. See #33 of Exsurge domine. But now that teaching too has changed. See Lumen Gentium #16. (4) Perhaps you should rethink what the Church is actually teaching these days. But, keep in mind, if you are convinced that a particular teaching is in error, you may not in good conscience accept it. Many have difficulty recognizing that this too is a teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 [quote]3) Aren't you calling for me to burned at the stake, too? [/quote] Ah the good old days. Moderaters kick this fool of these boards. He openly and blatantly blasphemes the Church. He has no conscience. As long as he persists in his error and continues to underming the official teachings of the Church as a lester (to be confussed with lesser) god, he is wicked and to be shunned. Allow him to no longer post his wickedness and deciet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 [quote](4) Perhaps you should rethink what the Church is actually teaching these days. But, keep in mind, if you are convinced that a particular teaching is in error, you may not in good conscience accept it. Many have difficulty recognizing that this too is a teaching. [/quote] Justify your wicked lies and distortions of the faith all you like. May God have mercy on your wicked soul for suggesting that myself and others should be party to your hatred of the truth. The conscience the Church speaks of is not the conscience of the wicked that are not submissive and that neglect proper formation. YOU NEED TO BE BANNED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Sep 15 2005, 05:43 PM']Justify your wicked lies and distortions of the faith all you like. May God have mercy on your wicked soul for suggesting that myself and others should be party to your hatred of the truth. The conscience the Church speaks of is not the conscience of the wicked that are not submissive and that neglect proper formation. YOU NEED TO BE BANNED! [right][snapback]724772[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSIVE: Are you saying that if one is not "submissive" that is, he doesn't believe and do everything he's told, he's "wicked"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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