Of Penguins and People

[Aloysius]

so called "homosexual" penguins DONT HAVE SEX. They just pair off and try to hatch rocks as if they were eggs. and recently the most famous gay penguin couple in New York split up, and one of the penguins in the couple paired himself with a girl penguin! boy + girl = natural even for penguins. everyonce in a while there are mindless acts of same-sex sex (not in penguins, mind you, but of other animals) but those are obviously not an instinct towards same-sex sex, but rather towards any sex at all. it's just done to another animal of the same sex on the animal's mad search for an outlet to the instinct that tells him to propogate his species.

penguins are an absurd example. they show same-sex couples committing to each other (well, until one of them finds a suitable female mate, mind you) but not having sex.

and all other animal cases of homosexuality show mindless instinctual sex simply being directed at the wrong sex.

[Sirklawd]

this thread has to be a joke.

i mean are there REALLY homosexuals out there that are going around using this as an attempt for justification. "THE PENGUINS DO IT WHY CANT WE!!"

i mean....isnt this insulting to homosexuals?

[morostheos]

[quote name='Sirklawd' date='Sep 20 2005, 06:30 PM']
an additional point, everyone knows the female praying mantis eats the male right after intercourse... should female humans do that if they feel that it "is right"?
ps: I HOPE NOT!!!!

/runs and never talks to a girl ever again
[right][snapback]731434[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Actually, the female praying mantis first rips the head off of the male before having intercourse, then eats the male after intercourse.

That's better, right? :


On a side note though, I don't think it's very charitable to say this thread must be a joke, or that it's ridiculous, etc...Semalsia stated a line of reasoning that many people do ascribe to. The best way to change people's minds isn't to laugh in their face at their opinions, but to show them where they are in error.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Sirklawd' date='Sep 20 2005, 07:19 PM']this thread has to be a joke.

i mean are there REALLY homosexuals out there that are going around using this as an attempt for justification. "THE PENGUINS DO IT WHY CANT WE!!"

i mean....isnt this insulting to homosexuals?
[right][snapback]731880[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

No, I think it's insulting to the penguins to be associated with homosexualtiy and the "gay marriage" agenda.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='morostheos' date='Sep 20 2005, 07:30 PM']I don't think it's very charitable to say this thread must be a joke, or that it's ridiculous, etc.[right][snapback]731907[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Neither do I.

[popestpiusx]

Actually, if one looks at the evidence 'homosexuality' is prevalent among animals only in captivity (as with the penguin case). It is extremely rare in the wild. Captivity is not natural. So homosexuality among animals is very similar to 'prison rape' senario mentioned above.

Edited September 21, 2005 by popestpiusx

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 20 2005, 09:06 PM']No, I think it's insulting to the penguins to be associated with homosexualtiy and the "gay marriage" agenda.
[right][snapback]731956[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
As do I. Poor penguins.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Sep 20 2005, 09:02 PM']Actually, if one looks at the evidence 'homosexuality' is prevalent among animals only in captivity (as with the penguin case).  It is extremely rare in the wild.  Captivity is not natural.  So homosexuality among animals is very similar to 'prison rape' senario mentioned above.
[right][snapback]732044[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
There are activities in the wild that I've come across that might be deemed homosexual, with whales for instance. However, these rare occasions all fall into what Aloysius aptly described as "instinctual sex simply being directed at the wrong sex."

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 20 2005, 06:17 PM']so called "homosexual" penguins DONT HAVE SEX. They just pair off and try to hatch rocks as if they were eggs.  and recently the most famous gay penguin couple in New York split up, and one of the penguins in the couple paired himself with a girl penguin!  boy + girl = natural even for penguins.  everyonce in a while there are mindless acts of same-sex sex (not in penguins, mind you, but of other animals) but those are obviously not an instinct towards same-sex sex, but rather towards any sex at all.  it's just done to another animal of the same sex on the animal's mad search for an outlet to the instinct that tells him to propogate his species.

penguins are an absurd example.  they show same-sex couples committing to each other (well, until one of them finds a suitable female mate, mind you) but not having sex.

and all other animal cases of homosexuality show mindless instinctual sex simply being directed at the wrong sex.
[right][snapback]731637[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


yeah, I sure didn't hear the ending to the gay penguin story on the news. wouldn't mesh well with the other cultural messages, would it?

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Sep 20 2005, 10:43 PM']yeah, I sure didn't hear the ending to the gay penguin story on the news.  wouldn't mesh well with the other cultural messages, would it?
[right][snapback]732288[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


Yay mainstream media!!!! They've struck again!

[Theoketos]

I can see Kilroy's mind

<Must fight urge to [s]kill[/s] lock thread>


I kid I kid...


P.S. Kilroy is not really unjustly violent (as far as I know) though she has a bs detector more sensitive than any day time tv judge.

Edited September 21, 2005 by Theoketos

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Sep 21 2005, 12:52 AM']I can see Kilroy's mind

<Must fight urge to [s]kill[/s] lock thread>
I kid I kid...
P.S. Kilroy is not really unjustly violent (as far as I know) though she has a bs detector more sensitive than any day time tv judge.
[right][snapback]732372[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


And you know my detector gets a real work out.... (Love you DJ!)

[track2004]

I don't really see the point of arguing that homosexuality is in nature or it is how one was brought up. The reality we face is that it exists and it is not going to not exist. For whatever reason people are gay.

[RC_]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Sep 20 2005, 04:05 PM']Who cares if penguins are gay?

Really?
I mean, is this truly important?
[right][snapback]731356[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

If penguins are gay, then my whole world-view is blown.

I have to retreat and re-examine my life.

[philothea]

[quote name='RC_' date='Sep 21 2005, 01:32 AM']If penguins are gay, then my whole world-view is blown.

I have to retreat and re-examine my life.
[right][snapback]732385[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

[StatingTheObvious]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Sep 20 2005, 04:15 PM'][url="http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/cns/2002-06-10/591.asp"]Gay penguins.[/url]

So a discussion about gay animals. That should be fun, right? And there's a lot of them too, you know. In pretty much all the species.

I'll assume for a moment that God exists.

Most animals operate by instinct alone (but not all) and since God is the creator of everything, including all the animals, God also created the instincts of all the animals. Since the mating and sexual behavior of these animals is determined by their instinct, it follows that whatever they do in these areas is determined by God. This would include homosexual behavior.

There are homosexual animals. Those that operate by instinct alone can't be affected by any psychological problems. Therefore their tendency for homosexual behavior is innate and not affected by later enviromental factors. Now, if it can happen to animals, then there is no reason it can't happen for humans also. This shows that theories that say homosexuality is caused by childhood traumas, bad parenting, etc, are clearly wrong. And since it is innate and not related to free-will, it is by necessity created by God.

Therefore, if God exists, homosexual behavior can't be immoral or wrong.
[right][snapback]731252[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]mutants exist too so they must be considered not-mutant, but just another normal creature God created.

[Sirklawd]

It's most certainly chartible to point out that its rediculous for homosexuals to compare themselves to penquins or anyother animal when their point is to say "we are just like any other HUMAN". If i didnt want to be charitable i wouldnt say anything and let them make geniuses of themselves.

humans are NOT animals.

[Didacus]

The argument at hand strikes at the definition of 'natural law'. Does this law include homosexuality or not? How do homosexulas define this 'natural law'?

Taking Semalsia's logic:

God created animals

God gave them instincts

All that God creates is good

Within those instincts is 'homosexual behavior'

Animals do not have the power of choice we human's do, thus cannot 'choose' to be gay.

Thus, God, in a sense, 'choose' for the animals (some) to be gay.

Since God is 100% goodness, and God chooses to have gay animals, being gay is not wrong nor immoral.

(feel free to correct me if I am mistaken in your logic Semalsia)



To defeat the argument, we need to point where the above logic is mistaken.

'I believe double effect lies at the core of the error of logic. God is good, yet evil exists? But since God can only create good things, evil is thus good. God created pinguins, pinguins are gay, thus being gay cannot be evil.'

The replies vs double effect can get pretty complicated and I won't mention it further in this post other than saying that double effect does not, at its conclusion, link God with evil, nor as far as pinguins are concerned, link the Allmighty with homosexuality.

[Aloysius]

the error more lies in the fact that there really is no observable homosexual relationships in nature. there is random homosexual sex to be sure, but there is no homosexual relationships. the only candidate, penguins, don't even have sex. they just try to hatch rocks, and when given a real egg they hatch it and raise it together. but the penguins aren't having sex, they're looking for a family. a family with two dads who are nothing more than very committed friends seeing as how they don't have sex.

[Sirklawd]

ill bite

this logic doesnt take into account where evil comes from. Evil, by definition is not good. So either God created evil, and it really isnt evil but good. or God didnt create evil. (which we believe. evil is the absence of God)

Humans are tempted toward evil all the time. except we have the ability to make the choice to not succumb. Animals are all "instinct" they have no choice. Who's to say evil doesnt also effect them. They have no power though. They are like a boat without a paddle unable to do anything by drift in the sea of nature and reep of the benifits of any evil or good that may happen. (since they have no concept of "evil" or "good" they dont really care anyway).

humans have paddles. we also have a crew, a huge strong boat, we can even get supergraded sails to catch and sail upon with good wind of god. we have all these options and the ability to choose to use them. we also have an understanding of how things are. of good and evil.

while we are in the same ocean where evil make try to move us, we are not only conscious of it, but can fight against it.

did i get it? that make sense?