Bishop Fellay speaks on meeting with Pope Benedict

[Paladin D]

[i]"Wipe them out... all of them." [/i]- [b]Darth Sidious[/b]

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='cappie' date='Sep 21 2005, 06:56 PM']
                                   
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I couldn't have said it better myself.

[brendan1104]

all's i'm saying is:

the sspx has made reasonable conditions, the tridentine mass was never forbidden, and the sspx is not in schism. i really dont want to argue about this anymore.

this whole thing started out as i posted the interview, and then proceeded to defend the sspx....

bad move when you try to do that with phatmassers.

if anyone wants to speak more about this, IM me at brendan11490, or e-mail me at: brendan1104@yahoo.com

[dspen2005]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Sep 21 2005, 05:12 PM']from www.dici.org:

"

We also seek to call the attention of the Sovereign Pontiff to the existence of the Tradition.  We wish to remind him that the Tradition is the Church, and that we incarnate the Church’s utterly Living Tradition.  We want to show that the Church would be much stronger in today’s world if it maintained the Tradition.  We want thus  to bring forth our experience: if the Church wants to get out of the tragic crisis it is presently going through, then the Tradition is a solution, indeed the only solution.

Bishop Fellay: Some Cardinals in Rome hope to see Tradition recognized.  We hope for that too.  We hope, in particular, for complete freedom to be granted to the Mass, but there is little chance that this will come tomorrow.  It will then be our duty to demonstrate the place of Tradition in the Church, avoiding the  misinterpretations that are often given of it.

We must get the Roman authorities to admit that we cannot follow without serious reservations the interpretation given of the Council and of Ecumenism, as it is practiced.  Deep down, what we hope for is to make them understand one day the whole reason for Tradition.
date : 24/9/2005"
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i find the words of bishop fellay to be somewhat ungenerous and ill-spirited.... he mentions at various points, but particularly at the beginning and the end of his interview the idea that Church has not maintained Tradition.... uhm, HELLO!!!!!!! it has. He is being disingenuous if he purports to be wanting union with a Church that has lost Tradition. He seems to be equivocating tradition and Tradition -- which leads to philosophical and logical error.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Sep 21 2005, 07:16 PM']all's i'm saying is:

the sspx has made reasonable conditions, the tridentine mass was never forbidden, and the sspx is not in schism. i really dont want to argue about this anymore.

this whole thing started out as i posted the interview, and then proceeded to defend the sspx....

bad move when you try to do that with phatmassers.

if anyone wants to speak more about this, IM me at brendan11490, or e-mail me at: brendan1104@yahoo.com
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Yeah, it is a bad move to try to attack the positions of orthodoxy against the orthodox.

Please learn the truth and humble yourself.

[brendan1104]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Sep 21 2005, 08:07 PM'][i]"Wipe them out... all of them." [/i]- [b]Darth Sidious[/b]
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Cardinal Ratzinger:

(On those who opposed the conciliar reforms)

"We must be on guard against minimizing these movements. Without a doubt, they represent a sectarian zealotry that is the antithesis of Catholicity. We cannot resist them too firmly."

(Citation Info: Joseph Ratzinger, Principles of Catholic Theology, Ignatius Press, 1987, pp. 389-90; German original: Katholische Prinzipienlehre, 1982)

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Sep 21 2005, 07:22 PM']Cardinal Ratzinger:

(On those who opposed the conciliar reforms)

"We must be on guard against minimizing these movements. Without a doubt, they represent a sectarian zealotry that is the antithesis of Catholicity. We cannot resist them too firmly."

(Citation Info: Joseph Ratzinger, Principles of Catholic Theology, Ignatius Press, 1987, pp. 389-90; German original: Katholische Prinzipienlehre, 1982)
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You seem to be ignoring part of that quote...here, let me help you see it better...


"We must be on guard against minimizing these movements. [b]Without a doubt, they represent a sectarian zealotry that is the antithesis of Catholicity.[/b] We [b]cannot[/b] resist them too firmly."

Seems to me that he's saying you can't go overboard in resisting Ultra-traditionalism.

[brendan1104]

Strange when the majority of those orthodox Catholics who have maintained religious customs, feasts, have kept the faith, have large families and are all-around good Catholics are part of "these movements", excluding sedevacantism...


[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 21 2005, 08:24 PM']You seem to be ignoring part of that quote...here, let me help you see it better...
"We must be on guard against minimizing these movements. [b]Without a doubt, they represent a sectarian zealotry that is the antithesis of Catholicity.[/b] We cannot resist them too firmly."
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[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Sep 21 2005, 07:16 PM']all's i'm saying is:

the sspx has made reasonable conditions, the tridentine mass was never forbidden, and the sspx is not in schism. i really dont want to argue about this anymore.

this whole thing started out as i posted the interview, and then proceeded to defend the sspx....

bad move when you try to do that with phatmassers.

if anyone wants to speak more about this, IM me at brendan11490, or e-mail me at: brendan1104@yahoo.com
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You just don't get it.
The facts are that the Trid mass needs an indult and the SSPX is outside the church. If you want to deny reality that is your choice.

Its not up to the SSPX to make ANY conditions, they are the ones in schism outside the church looking in.
They should be on their knees begging to re-enter the church, and acting for forgiveness for defying the Magisterium of the Church.

Unless and until the SSPX removes their blinders to their actual status in the church the schism will continue.
God bless Benedict for even trying to get thru to them.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Sep 21 2005, 07:26 PM']Strange when the majority of those orthodox Catholics who have maintained religious customs, feasts, have kept the faith, have large families and are all-around good Catholics are part of "these movements", excluding sedevacantism...
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They are, by definition, not orthodox Catholics. There's your fallacy.

[brendan1104]

Even those who go to the indult?

You need no permission for the Mass!

Common sense tells you that... as well as hierarchy members....

[brendan1104]

[color=red]we don't post heresy here [/color]

Edited September 22, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[cmotherofpirl]

You need an indult to say the Mass.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Sep 21 2005, 07:44 PM']Even those who go to the indult?

You need no permission for the Mass!

Common sense tells you that... as well as hierarchy members....
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Those who go to the indult Mass but believe that the Novus Ordo is wrong and that the SSPX is right, even if they do go to the indult Mass, are still backing the SSPX and therefore are not orthodox.

There are such people in the Diocese of Lincoln (a diocese which I love, but there are rad trads everywhere). I've gone to the indult Mass before. There are those who go with genuine love of the Church and those who go because they refuse to go to the Novus Ordo out of contempt and pride.

[brendan1104]

You need no permission to celebrate Mass.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Sep 21 2005, 07:55 PM']You need no permission to celebrate Mass.
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Depends on the order of the Mass and whether it's public or private.

You let propaganda blind you. Rest your faith in the Church.

[Brother Adam]

Great REAL Church writings to read on the liturgy:

Sacrosanctum Concilium 1963
Mediator Dei 1947
General Instruction on the Roman Missal 2002
Music in Catholic Worship 1982
Liturgical Music Today 1982
The History and Future of the Roman Liturgy: Denis Crouan, STD
Liturgical Abuse: Paul Mihalik
The Spirit of the Liturgy: Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
Looking at the Liturgy: Aidan Nichols OP
The Meaning of Tradition: Yves Congar OP
The Liturgy Documents Volume 1 2002

[brendan1104]

I mean the Tridentine Mass.

Yves Congar- if I'm not mistaken yet another modernist....

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Sep 21 2005, 08:09 PM']I mean the Tridentine Mass.
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Yes you do, if it's public. If you didn't, then why would the archbishop feel a need for emergency ordinations? I mean...why wouldn't he just say, "well, don't need to obey that..." along with all the other ultra-traditionalists? Why make a special group?

If the Church didn't restrict them, then why did they feel so restricted?

[brendan1104]

The Church's restrictions on the Tridentine Mass are as valid as Pope Benedict being a girl...