Knights of Columbus

[Benedict]

I am putting this here because it is not a debate and not a question about the Catholic faith (especially one that should only be open to answer by theologians and clergy).

Basically, it has come up at another board that the KofC have secret rituals for initiation or promotion or something.

1. Is this true?

It has also come up that the Church does not want Catholics joining secret organizations. We are rather certain that the KofC are not the type of "secret organization" that the Church is talking about. So,

2. What kind of secrets are we talking about here?

3. Why are they kept secret?


This post sort of goes with another one I made long ago about the Dead Theologians Society. Their members agree to not be members of secret societies and yet the DTS itself keeps its information hidden and password protected, only to be accessed by group leaders for dissemination.

[Socrates]

They no doubt worship Satan, eat aborted babies, and perform bizarre rituals involving consecrated hosts on the moon!

Some people want to read some dark, evil consipiracy into everything.

[thessalonian]

There is an initiation cerimony that I cannot tell you about, only because it would spoil it. It is a test of character. As far as the meetings go in the Knights they are primarily business type meetings. The Knights are very interested in Catechism and have lectures on various topics. It's a good organization and does alot of good. It is a Christian brotherhood of men but very orthodox Catholic focused. The Church is in full support of the Knights all the way up to Pope JP II who blessed the rosaries they gave out when I joined. Don't sweat it.

The problem with Masons is that they are indifferentist regarding religion. That is the primary reason the Church forbids membership in them.

Blessings

Edited September 24, 2005 by thessalonian

[Nathan]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 23 2005, 07:06 PM']They no doubt worship Satan, eat aborted babies, and perform bizarre rituals involving consecrated hosts on the moon!

Some people want to read some dark, evil consipiracy into everything.
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beaver dam, I can't wait to join!

[Lounge Daddy]

[font="Courier"]oh ya! thats why i joined...
i cant wait to work my way up in the secret fraternal order of columbus

we need to take back what is ours from the Masons and the Illuminate
thats why we are currently - as i understand it - creating hurricanes in the Gulf with the help of President Bush and his band of Skull and Bones brothers

anything more than that - i dont know... after all, im only a 3rd degree knight and i shouldnt be blabbing about this like i am or i get stabbed with the ceramonial punishment knife[/font]

[franciscanheart]

my father is a third degree (refused to become 4th) knight and is and has been an officer for a few years now. he wont tell anyone anything except about all the good work they do, how great their food is, how cheap the beer is, how wonderfully relaxing the pool is, and how everyone should use their hall for everything. ive been in their "secret meeting room" downstairs and seen all of their game areas. ive also seen their little bar. so what the heck else is there to know?

apparently a lot.

we're not allowed to know about what goes on in any of the meetings which sometimes makes me really curious. my dad was the recorder his first year as an officer and there was a lock on his files of minutes. a bit much? yeah i thought so too. everytime i would pass by him he'd like minimize the screen and stuff. weird. initiation ceremonies are like ultimate secrets but no one except the knights themselves know why. sounds fishy to me!

they seem really cliquish sometimes but ... meh. maybe its cuz im a girl?

they do a lot of really awesome work and im not trying to make too much fun or discredit their charity. my dad's council is the Great 799 and they have done a lot for me, my community, and the world.



...............in short: i have no clue. i wonder about their secretiveness too!

[prose]

Seems secretive to me too. It's likt the Non-secret secret society..

[Paladin D]

The secrecy is cool.

[Benedict]

It is that very "I can't tell you about it" thing that is raising flags at another board. Especially since we know there is no sanction against joining the Knights, it makes no sense that they have secrets.

I have an obligation to not join the KofC specifically because of this. If I were ever to join, I would refuse to keep things secret. It would be my mission to reveal the secrets to all.

I hate secrets.

I also hate surprises.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Benedict' date='Sep 23 2005, 08:55 PM']It is that very "I can't tell you about it" thing that is raising flags at another board.  Especially since we know there is no sanction against joining the Knights, it makes no sense that they have secrets.

I have an obligation to not join the KofC specifically because of this.  If I were ever to join, I would refuse to keep things secret.  It would be my mission to reveal the secrets to all.

I hate secrets.

I also hate surprises.
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The "secrets" is just part of the whole fraternal organization thing - just something to separate members for non-members.

I'm sure if there was something evil involved, the Church would havesoundly condemned the Knights, rather than approving them.

I'm not a member, but I can almost guarantee that if you joined, or otherwise "found out," you'd find the "secrets" very disappointingly un-alarming and boring.

Keeping secrets is not intrinsically evil. In the Baltimore Catechism we are told that the eighth commandment forbids "the telling of secrets which we are bound to keep."

I used to be in the Legion of Mary, and I beleive what was discussed in the meetings was to be kept secret - but nothing scandalous or evil went on there.

[dspen2005]

those of us in the KC cannot tell you the secrets - of the cermony, etc... so what does that mean??? that means that you, as a Catholic young man, should check it out and see about joining up.. we don't do any sort of weirdo stuff -- we aren't the masons

[Benedict]

[quote]The "secrets" is just part of the whole fraternal organization thing - just something to separate members for non-members.[/quote]
Something I very much disagree with.

[quote]I'm sure if there was something evil involved, the Church would havesoundly condemned the Knights, rather than approving them.[/quote]
This I know. It is this very fact that makes their secret-keeping so weird.

[quote]I'm not a member, but I can almost guarantee that if you joined, or otherwise "found out," you'd find the "secrets" very disappointingly un-alarming and boring.[/quote]
All the more reason why I think they should not be secret.

[quote]Keeping secrets is not intrinsically evil. In the Baltimore Catechism we are told that the eighth commandment forbids "the telling of secrets which we are bound to keep."[/quote]
The Catechism speaks of breaking our vows. Secrets may not be evil, but I still do not like them.

[quote]I used to be in the Legion of Mary, and I beleive what was discussed in the meetings was to be kept secret - but nothing scandalous or evil went on there.[/quote]
Neither I nor the other posters believe anything evil is going on in the KofC. They find it shady that the Knights keep secrets. I do not find it shady at all; just stupid and unnecessary.

As I said, if I were to try and join the Knights (and several months ago I looked into it; had to decline at the time because I refused to pay dues and buy or rent a tuxedo), I would not promise to keep the secrets. If they concern boring, moral details, there is no reason they need to be secret.

To reiterate that last point, I am not saying the because they are kept secret they concern evil. I am saying that because they concern boring details the Knights have no real reason to keep them secret. They just do.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Sep 23 2005, 09:21 PM']
so what the heck else is there to know?

apparently a lot.

we're not allowed to know about what goes on in any of the meetings which sometimes makes me really curious. my dad was the recorder his first year as an officer and there was a lock on his files of minutes. a bit much? yeah i thought so too.
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[font="Courier"]you must not know about the hurricane machine![/font]

[p-hawk]

My biggest question about the knights is:

Why do they keep asking me to join?? Even though I'm leaning toward joining a third order??? And willing to share that with them??? I'm not leading them on, I swear. I almost feel guilty for not joining, although I have no reason to; it's not a sin to refuse to join. Sheesh.

[Benedict]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Sep 23 2005, 09:25 PM']those of us in the KC cannot tell you the secrets -  of the cermony, etc...[/quote]
Why?

[quote]so what does that mean??? that means that you, as a Catholic young man, should check it out and see about joining up.[/quote]
If joining includes a promise to not share the details of the ceremony, then I am bound by conscience not to join.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Benedict' date='Sep 23 2005, 08:55 PM']It is that very "I can't tell you about it" thing that is raising flags at another board.  Especially since we know there is no sanction against joining the Knights, it makes no sense that they have secrets.

I have an obligation to not join the KofC specifically because of this.  If I were ever to join, I would refuse to keep things secret.  It would be my mission to reveal the secrets to all.

I hate secrets.

I also hate surprises.
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I think that you should join. [b]Monday I am going to buy life insurance from them for my unborn Child.[/b]

Also, in our oath there is a clause that says our duties as knights come after our duty to God and to our Country.

Further, it is not really secret, because every one can join. All you have to do is worship God in the best way...ie be a practicing Catholic and Male. (If you are female you can join the woman's auxiliary or daughters of Isabella.)

Seriously. The best Catholic Fellowship this side of Benedictine College or Stubeville is in the Knights Hall.