Conclave Secrets Revealed!

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Sep 24 2005, 11:09 AM']Be careful. This is slander/calumny.
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or perhaps an irreverent jest. pay it no mind.


It really is a shame that a cardinal would release this. I hope it was stolen, but if it was not and the cardinal willingly violated his oath of secrecy then I don't have much respect for him.

[Aloysius]

I didn't read it.

The Church attaches a seal of secrecy to it that is really not much different in nature to the seal of confession, with the breaking of it being excommunication.

If a priest were to tell you something from a confession, it'd be the same thing. He'd be the one excommunicating himself, not you, but you still shouldn't promote the releasing of such sealed information.

In fact, I think Catholic sites should refuse to even allow this content on their site (even posted on a phorum, I'd suggest editing it out IMHO). The only reason we need is that the Church attaches a seal of secrecy that ought to be respected. It's not like the account (though I didn't read it I can be pretty sure) incriminates anyone or anything, but it's just not supposed to be released by pain of excommunication from the Church.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 24 2005, 02:18 PM']I didn't read it.

The Church attaches a seal of secrecy to it that is really not much different in nature to the seal of confession, with the breaking of it being excommunication.

If a priest were to tell you something from a confession, it'd be the same thing.  He'd be the one excommunicating himself, not you, but you still shouldn't promote the releasing of such sealed information.

In fact, I think Catholic sites should refuse to even allow this content on their site (even posted on a phorum, I'd suggest editing it out IMHO).  The only reason we need is that the Church attaches a seal of secrecy that ought to be respected.  It's not like the account (though I didn't read it I can be pretty sure) incriminates anyone or anything, but it's just not supposed to be released by pain of excommunication from the Church.
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Yes, but at the same time, we have no reason to believe that it truly is the details of the conclave. Until the Church speaks out against it, while it may not be suggested, I think it is permissible, if for nothing else than for the laity to discredit the likelihood that it's authentic, which is why I read it.

[Theoketos]

Why would you write about how many votes any way? It seems an occassion of sin to do that. Seems to me a Cardinal would know better.

My vote Horse mushy mud pie.

[p-hawk]

[quote name='p-hawk' date='Sep 24 2005, 09:50 AM']Umm, doesn't the Church have a right to know who this cardinal is?
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When I asked this question, by "Church" I meant "those in the Church who enforce excommunication". This should not have been publicly disseminated by the journalist, either if it was entrusted to him by an offending cardinal or if the journalist filched it. I'm not going to speculate which of the two happened.

On a related note, aren't there supposed to be no written records kept of the conclave? Shouldn't diaries of that time read something like:

[quote name='madeuppcardinal']Breakfast was yummy. We had eggs benedict. The cook put a smidge of basil in the sauce.

I participated in a Mystery all morning.

Lunch was a little late in arriving. During the wait, the cardinal who sat across from me took a blank index card out of his pocket and made of it an interesting contraption I had never seen before. He called it "table-top football".

I was almost a little disappointed when lunch came.
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[Aloysius]

just in case it is real, it shouldn't be spread. if I were in charge I'd edit out the info about the conclave just keep the story that a cardinal may have leeked information.

[theculturewarrior]

If its a secret, why are we posting it to Phatmass?

[Aloysius]

that's what I'm sayin!

anyway, it's possible it's all a hoax, it's possible the diary was stolen

if it was intentional, that cardinal needs to plead for forgiveness from the pope. this is one of those high-level excommunication things. same canonical status, if I'm not mistaken, as the seal of confession.

[White Knight]

I'm reading Catholicism for dummies and the Catechism of the Catholic Church and I find this very interesting, yet very wrong, he souldn't have revealed the details.

[musturde]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Sep 24 2005, 02:23 PM']If its a secret, why are we posting it to Phatmass?
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It's already public. We might as well not censor it. Whoever leaked it should be given his dues. I'm totally against censoring it because it's not going to be a huge difference on my beliefs as a Catholic. Let the media have fun with it.

[Aloysius]

ehh... I think as a Catholic site we ought to respect this the same way we would respect the seal of confession. If some priest made public the sins of a famous person that confessed to him, I should think we would not allow them to be posted here.

It's all a matter of prudence, and I think it'd be most prudent to not put the info on Catholic sites. that's really just my humble opinion though.

[musturde]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 24 2005, 02:48 PM']ehh... I think as a Catholic site we ought to respect this the same way we would respect the seal of confession.  If some priest made public the sins of a famous person that confessed to him, I should think we would not allow them to be posted here. 

It's all a matter of prudence, and I think it'd be most prudent to not put the info on Catholic sites.  that's really just my humble opinion though.
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It's on Fox News. It's not respectful to close yourself to information most people already know. Am I just going to look away when I see this on tv? I believe this is balogna. The only thing I think is really odd is the bit about the cardinal smoking. It makes me think the source is from a man seeking revenge but this is still public information. You'll find out about it whether your surfing phatmass or not.

[Aloysius]

What would you do in the other scenario about a broken seal of confession? it's got the same canonical status.

I think in prudence and respect you should avoid the information as much as possible.

You know... :gasp:... it's not an absolute necessity to watch 24 hour news programs... :gasp:

wouldn't it be cool if crazy news executives watched the ratings plummet on their TV screens everytime they started talking about information that was under a seal of secrecy by canon law? : it's not going to happen probably, because our society is very voyeuristic and wants to know secrets... but it'd be really cool!

It's not necessarily WRONG, I think it'd just be prudential and respectful not to host the information on Catholic sites and not to spread the information or read about it.

[musturde]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 24 2005, 03:08 PM']What would you do in the other scenario about a broken seal of confession?  it's got the same canonical status.

I think in prudence and respect you should avoid the information as much as possible.

You know... :gasp:... it's not an absolute necessity to watch 24 hour news programs... :gasp:

wouldn't it be cool if crazy news executives watched the ratings plummet on their TV screens everytime they started talking about information that was under a seal of secrecy by canon law?  : it's not going to happen probably, because our society is very voyeuristic and wants to know secrets... but it'd be really cool!

It's not necessarily WRONG, I think it'd just be prudential and respectful not to host the information on Catholic sites and not to spread the information or read about it.
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I understand your concern. I just think that although it is bad that someone revealed it, it's not really hurting anyone and its already public so there's no point in ignoring it or feigning ignorance.

[kateri05]

[quote=madeuppcardinal]Breakfast was yummy. We had eggs benedict. The cook put a smidge of basil in the sauce.

I participated in a Mystery all morning.

Lunch was a little late in arriving. During the wait, the cardinal who sat across from me took a blank index card out of his pocket and made of it an interesting contraption I had never seen before. He called it "table-top football".

I was almost a little disappointed when lunch came.
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tabletop football is amazing. the should play western cardinals vs eastern cardinals

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
9/24 - Twenty-fifth Saturday
[quote name='kateri05' date='Sep 24 2005, 03:27 PM']tabletop football is amazing.  the should play western cardinals vs eastern cardinals   
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Oh, we'd totally beat the pants off of the Eastern Rite cardinals...seeing as there's only two of them, and one hundred twenty-some of us!!! MWAHAHAHA!

[Aloysius]

[i]tabletop[/i] football is supposed to be one on one though...

[musturde]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Sep 24 2005, 03:32 PM']JMJ
9/24 - Twenty-fifth Saturday

Oh, we'd totally beat the pants off of the Eastern Rite cardinals...seeing as there's only two of them, and one hundred twenty-some of us!!!  MWAHAHAHA!
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Cardinal Sfeir could take all of them down with his hands tied behind his back while sipping iced tea and cooking up some delicious tabouli.

[White Knight]

What stays in the conclave, sould remain there, it souldn't be exposed. I'm not Catholic, but I'm outraged at this untraditional manner of respect.

Edited September 24, 2005 by White Knight

[musturde]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 24 2005, 03:53 PM']What stays in the conclave, sould remain there, it souldn't be exposed. I'm nto Catholic, but I'm outraged at this untraditional manner of respect. 
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yeah, the "cardinal" should be punished.