Another Anti-catholic Website Needing Correction.

[Guest Erol]

This is a reply to the very first post of Ironmonk in reply to the answer of my friend Nicolas from remnantofgod.org.

Mr ironmonk, I would like to make you aware of the fact that in your very own catecism the 10 commandments are corrupted.
If you follow your catecism you will notice that the Bible is always one step ahead of the Roman Catholic Church on this.

Your church split the 10th commandment in to 2 seperate commandments to still end up with 10 after they delete the 2nd! Your church does this because the second commandment clearly forbids the making of images, and of course your church can't have that because she needs to have her followers venerate mary with statues.

Before you attack my friend Nicolas do your own homework first and USE A BIBLE to proof the ten commandments do not contain this part!

Hmm. maybe Moses and Judaism where wrong and rome is right?

I don't think so!


"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" John 8:32



Erol
[color="#FF0000"]We do not ever link to anti-catholic carp. -cmom[/color]

Edited April 6, 2007 by cmotherofpirl

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]Your church split the 10th commandment in to 2 seperate commandments to still end up with 10 after they delete the 2nd![/quote]This is a common myth about Catholicism that is spread in fundamentalist Christian circles. The rule that you call the 'second commandment' is still included - but we group it with the first:

I am the Lord your God: You shall not have strange Gods before me.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day.
Honour your father and mother.
You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbour's wife.
You shall not covet your neighbour's goods.

This makes a lot more sense than the Protestant ordering, as the prohibition against graven images is clearly connected to the worship of false gods. In the Protestant grouping of the Ten Commandments, that prohibition is counted as a separate rule - and the ban on coveting your neighbour's wife is included with the prohibition against coveting your neighbour's property. In the Catholic version of the 10 Commandments, the warning against coveting your neighbour's wife is treated as a distinct commandment. Women aren't property in Catholicism.

There is [b]no[/b] numerical division of the commandments in the book of Moses, so if you're working for the original Hebrew text alone then both groupings are OK. But if you look at Jewish versions of the 10 Commandments, they agree with the Catholic ordering. If you don't believe me, look at this [url="http://www.holidays.net/shavuot/ten.htm"]Jewish source[/url], which states clearly, "We are presenting the Jewish interpretation of the Ten Commandments. Different religions have different versions of the commandments." So despite what you think, Judaism and Protestantism don't agree on this one. The Jewish and Catholic versions are identical, which makes sense - the Church Fathers worked from the Jewish Decalogue when they ordered the commandments.

[quote]Before you attack my friend Nicolas do your own homework first and USE A BIBLE to proof the ten commandments do not contain this part![/quote]

Before your friend Nicolas makes websites attacking the Catholic Church, perhaps he should actually read the Catholic commandments that he claimed to teach. His website is crawling with lies. Can you account for why he printed a fake news article from fake source and presented it as serious? Or why he seriously states that the Examination of Conscience is the Catholic version of the commandments?

Edited April 6, 2007 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[A Yearning Heart]

I agree with you, Cathoholic, but Erol, like Nicolas (I wonder if they are the one and the same?), has also made a website attacking the Roman Catholic church and what looks like almost every aspect of it just on the front page

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Erol, your numbering of the Ten Commandments assumes that the Protestant numbering is correct. Since God didn't number them, the numbering isn't in Scripture. Where do you get your numbering from?

[cmotherofpirl]

scripturesdidnothavepunctationandsowerewrittenlikethis

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1232273' date='Apr 6 2007, 10:43 AM']scripturesdidnothavepunctationandsowerewrittenlikethis[/quote]
ctllyHbrwscrptrsddnthvpncttnrvwlsndswrwrttnlkths

^ "actually, Hebrew scriptures did not have punctuation or vowels and so were written like this"

[thessalonian]

[quote name='A Yearning Heart' post='1232153' date='Apr 6 2007, 07:50 AM']I agree with you, Cathoholic, but Erol, like Nicolas (I wonder if they are the one and the same?), has also made a website attacking the Roman Catholic church and what looks like almost every aspect of it just on the front page [/quote]


This was a tactic of Errol's on his board when I was there. He had two different handles and would defend himself. He tried to hide it.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1232581' date='Apr 6 2007, 05:27 PM']ctllyHbrwscrptrsddnthvpncttnrvwlsndswrwrttnlkths

^ "actually, Hebrew scriptures did not have punctuation or vowels and so were written like this"[/quote]
I know, I figured they would get the point.
I figured if I didn't use vowels people would think my cat was typing again.

[Starets]

[quote name='Erol' post='1232149' date='Apr 6 2007, 08:11 AM']This is a reply to the very first post of Ironmonk in reply to the answer of my friend Nicolas from remnantofgod.org.

Mr ironmonk, I would like to make you aware of the fact that in your very own catecism the 10 commandments are corrupted.
If you follow your catecism you will notice that the Bible is always one step ahead of the Roman Catholic Church on this.

Your church split the 10th commandment in to 2 seperate commandments to still end up with 10 after they delete the 2nd! Your church does this because the second commandment clearly forbids the making of images, and of course your church can't have that because she needs to have her followers venerate mary with statues.

Before you attack my friend Nicolas do your own homework first and USE A BIBLE to proof the ten commandments do not contain this part!

Hmm. maybe Moses and Judaism where wrong and rome is right?

I don't think so!
"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" John 8:32
Erol
[color="#FF0000"]We do not ever link to anti-catholic carp. -cmom[/color][/quote]

I think it might be best to start with proving that "Sola Scriptura" is in the Bible. I no longer believe that that doctrine is in any way biblical, and haven't in a long time. I am not a Bible scholar. I am just a bear of little brain. But it no longer seems that the usual prooftext for the sufficiency of scripture is sufficient to support the all-sufficiency of scripture. and the difference between "sufficiency" and "all sufficiency" is not a distinction without difference.

If "Sola Scriptura" was a biblical doctrine, and modern fundamentalists charged with its compilation, I suspect the Bible would be a far different book.

There'd only be one Creation story. Uncertainties such as the identity of the "nephilim", the exact moment of creation and the second coming and etc would be eliminated. The 10 commandments would contain only 10 declarative statements and not 14. There would only be one list of the Gifts of the Spirit, and it would be an exhaustive list.

Some books, like Leviticus, would be orders of magnitude longer. After all, nothing could be left out. All of the unspoken social codes would have to be formally codified. Proverbs would be expanded to include lots more pithy sayings. Some books, like the history narratives, would have to be edited for clarity.

Others would have to be sanitised. Only the psalms specifically written by King David would make it in. Forget about Psalm 137, for example. It's post-exilic. No way Davey could have written it. And Psalm 136? It repeats the same phrase over 2 dozen times. That's vain repetition! Out you go!! The hard uncertainties of the Book of Job would cause it to be removed. Stories like David's adultery, Lot's incest, Peter's denial, etc, would have to be removed, and you can forget about the Song of Songs. Jesus' first miracle would be the Changing of Water into Grape Juice.

There would be many more books as well. Lots of prophetic books, filled with all manner of ghosties and ghoulies and long leggedy beasties and things that go "bump" in the night. Lots more Pauline Epistles as well. They enjoy a sort of "primacy of honour" in american fundamentalism, as I recall. The Parables of Jesus would be replaced by the Lectures of Jesus.

And perhaps most importantly, there would be a Bible verse that listed the Table of Contents.