Shroud of Turin

[goldenchild17]

Any good books or links on the subject? I had some notes from a presentation I went to a long time ago but I can't find them....

Anyways, yeah I want to see if I can work it into something I'm writing.

[goldenchild17]

I think I've asked for these things before but I can't find that thread, but I also need info(book text, link or whatnot) on Biblical Jewish Burial procedures.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Sep 29 2005, 09:19 PM']Any good books or links on the subject?  I had some notes from a presentation I went to a long time ago but I can't find them....

Anyways, yeah I want to see if I can work it into something I'm writing.
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try these:
[b]--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=3113"]Scientists: Relic Authenticates Shroud of Turin[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5794"]Frequently Asked Questions about the Shroud[/url]
--[url="http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=34747"]New Study Confirms Ancient Origin for Shroud of Turin
--[url=http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=35810]New Study Backs Shroud of Turin's Authenticity[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/SHROUD.TXT"]Shroud of Turin Given New Life[/url][/b]

there are also two websites on the shroud that got the green light from Catholic Culture:
[b]--http://www.shroud.it/index2.htm
--http://www.shroud.com/[/b]


[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Sep 29 2005, 10:29 PM']I think I've asked for these things before but I can't find that thread, but I also need info(book text, link or whatnot) on Biblical Jewish Burial procedures.
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well, the New Advent article on [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03071a.htm"][b]Christian Burial[/b][/url] briefly mentions the Jewish practice in the first paragraph:[list]The interment of a deceased person with ecclesiastical rites in consecrated ground. The Jews and most of the nations of antiquity buried their dead. Amongst the Greeks and Romans both cremation and interment were practised indifferently. That the early Christians from the beginning used only burial seems certain. This conclusion may be inferred not only from negative arguments but from the direct testimony of Tertullian, "De Corona" (P.L., II, 92, 795; cf. Minucius Felix, "Octavius", xi in P.L., III, 266), and from the stress laid upon the analogy between the resurrection of the body and the Resurrection of Christ (I Cor., xv, 42; cf. Tertullian, "De Animâ", lv; Augustine, "De civitate Dei", I, xiii). In the light of this same dogma of the resurrection of the body as well as of Jewish tradition (cf. Tob., i, 21; xii, 12; Ecclus., xxxviii, 16; II Mach., xii, 39), it is easy to understand how the interment of the mortal remains of the Christian dead has always been regarded as an act of religious import and has been surrounded at all times with some measure of religious ceremonial. The motives of Christian burial will be more fully treated in the article Cremation. As to the latter practice, it will be sufficient to say here that, while involving no necessary contradiction of any article of faith, it is opposed alike to the law of the Church and to the usages of antiquity. In defense of the Church's recent prohibitions, it may be urged that the revival of cremation in modern times has in practice been prompted less by considerations of improved hygiene or psychological sentiment than by avowed materialism and opposition to Catholic teaching.
[/list]these entries from the [b][url="http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/index.jsp"]Jewish Encyclopedia[/url][/b] should be helpful as well:
[b]--[url="http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1607&letter=B"]Burial[/url]
--[url="http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1608&letter=B"]Burial Society[/url][/b]

if u need more info, just let me know

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[goldenchild17]

That's great thanks. Without having read those links yet I did have a question. I came across this thread that rejects the shroud for some decent reasons it seems. What do you think? [url="http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=548"]http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=548[/url]

[Cre8d4Youth]

I don't know about books, but late one night I was watching PBS and they have a series called "Secrets of the Dead" or something, which had an episode on the Shroud. I figured that like typical "intellectual" programming it would be predisposed to disprove the authenticity of the Shroud. Boy was I wrong. They presented equal time to both sides...if not even a tad MORE time to the side that had more convincing evidence that the other side was incorrect!! But the part that stands out most to me was a guy trying to prove how the Shroud was "made" by men trying to scam us all. He soaked a linen shroud in some silver sulfate solution (I think) and said that with a primitive lens that was available in the middle ages, and hanging a dead body in the sun, he could create the same thing. Basically like a very primative camera. And, to be honest, he did just that, and it photographed much the same was as the authentic Shroud. And then, he shot himself in the foot, imo. He said that the man would have to hang in the sun for three days for that kind of exposure to happen.
Did you catch that? Let me say it again...he said the man would have to be exposed to the linen for three days...THREE DAYS! Without intending to, he alluded to Christ's time in the tomb! Boo...and yah!
Ok, so maybe that was only exciting to me. Shoulda seen me when it dawned on me that God in Bruce Almighty was a representation of the Christian God and not some watered down "hollywood god." LOL

[Ziggamafu]

I definitely think the shroud is "worthy of belief". Unfortunately, a natural explanation was recently offered by somebody. Even more unfortunate, I can't seem to find the link to the actual story. But anyway, some guy tried to figure out how all of the peculiar properties of the shroud could be acheived using only materials that your average person from the Middle Ages could aquire. The result was to bleach a linen sheet, place a pane of clear glass over the sheet, and draw the image onto the glass using soap. That created some of the weird effects, I guess. I think that's how he did it, anyway...

Relevant links:

[url="http://www.the-tidings.com/2005/0923/shroud.htm"]recent findings from shroud conference[/url]

[url="http://www.ereleases.com/pr/20050920008.html"]controversial side of the recent conference[/url]

Still, I think it's worthy of belief. But I wouldn't use it as support for Catholicism or evidence of the supernatural. The best one to toss at skeptics is the spiral staircase, I think. You know, the one in that little chapal? I think it's in New Mexico...anyway, that one is much more difficult to explain away.

[goldenchild17]

What's the deal with the staircase? I've heard of it. Was even going to visit it, but I don't know anything about it.

[Jenna]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Sep 30 2005, 09:36 PM']What's the deal with the staircase?  I've heard of it.  Was even going to visit it, but I don't know anything about it.
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[url="http://www.theoutlaws.com/unexplained4.htm"]http://www.theoutlaws.com/unexplained4.htm[/url]

this explains the staircase pretty good

[phatcatholic]

woh, that staircase is cool

[Ziggamafu]

see, i dig the staircase because anyone can see the miracle and it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be supernatural (so skeptics don't automatically wright it off, turning on the "god doesn't exist" button).

instead, the staircase demonstrates a miraculous genius. even modern intellectual elitists can't wrap their minds around it, thus humbling even the most ardent of agnostics.

...it's a good baby step toward belief in the supernatural.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Sep 30 2005, 09:27 PM']see, i dig the staircase because anyone can see the miracle and it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be supernatural (so skeptics don't automatically wright it off, turning on the "god doesn't exist" button).

instead, the staircase demonstrates a miraculous genius. even modern intellectual elitists can't wrap their minds around it, thus humbling even the most ardent of agnostics.

...it's a good baby step toward belief in the supernatural.
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word

[azaelia]

[quote name='Jenna' date='Sep 30 2005, 04:59 PM'][url="http://www.theoutlaws.com/unexplained4.htm"]http://www.theoutlaws.com/unexplained4.htm[/url]

this explains the staircase pretty good
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That's wicked awesome!

[Ziggamafu]

here's some more info about the staircase:

pro: [url="http://www.visitsantafe.com/businesspage.cfm?BusinessID=1579"]the believer's verdict: the structure is IMPOSSABLE!![/url]

con: [url="http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_n6_v22/ai_21275520"]the skeptic's verdict: ok, ok, it's clever and maybe "nearly miraculous" but it can at least somewhat be explained...[/url]