In the spirit of St. Francis of Assisi...

[Duc_In_Altum]

In the spriit of St. Francis of Assisi, patron of small animals....

I thought of this yesterday as i was lifeguarding at the college pool. There was no one swimming at the time and a fly was consistantly bothering me as i tried to focus on reading "mere Christianity" by CS Lewis. I did my best to ignore it, but as my focus was hindered, my frustration increased exponentially. So I thought, "hmm, i could destroy this fly and be done with it and move on with a little philosophical reading or i could allow my small enemy to persist, distract, and annoy me."

I was just wondering what the pm debate table would advise. Should i have killed it or should i have increased my sufferings and shown it mercy?

peace,

-Joe

[toledo_jesus]

Either or. Not killing a fly would be what I would consider a "counsel of perfection".

[dspen2005]

get out the RAID -- KILL IT!!!!!

[Seven77]

this probably means very little or nothing at all :

if there were alot of people in the pool, i'd say killing the fly was wrong because that fly may have been God's way of getting you to put the book down and focus on your duty of the moment.

[hierochloe]

Indeed a [i]very[/i] interesting dillemma for myself as well. I often find spiders in my tub in the morning. Subsequently I find myself debating whether to put them in the trash can or go to the door in my chonies to release the critter outside..... Funny thing is I can never bring myself to kill them outright. Someday I'll probably pay for that with a nice bite by a some brown recluse.

[toledo_jesus]

there's nothing wrong with being gentle.


sometimes I would feel guilty for killing wasps that got in the house. You know, between the window and the screen. but I figure they'd just die slower otherwise, plus I don't want them nesting. They are only animals, after all.


So, kill them or don't.

[Socrates]

Kill the beaver dam fly!
Flies are from Beelzebub, the Lord of the Flies!
They are evil spreaders of filth and disease, and are commonly associated with demonic phenomena!

Seriously though, this is one of the most ridiculous "moral dillemas" I have ever heard of! Gives new meaning to the word "scrupolosity." And I always thought "wouldn't hurt a flie" was just a figure of speach!!

[hierochloe]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 4 2005, 06:27 PM']sometimes I would feel guilty for killing wasps that got in the house.  You know, between the window and the screen.  but I figure they'd just die slower otherwise, plus I don't want them nesting. 
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I'm the type that's just neurotic enough to open the window to catch them or remove the screen and risk getting stung in my eye just to let them out.

Yet I'm capable of catching a fish, whacking it over the head, cutting it's insides out and taking it home to eat. Maybe if I could eat spiders, flies, and wasps....

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I'm reminded of a scene from the movie Contact...a moral debate...something like this:

"What if we build this thing and some intergalactic army steps out to kill us all?"

"That would be like us taking all the effort to destroy a few microbes on some ant hill in Africa. It's just silly."

"On the other hand, would you have much of a moral qualm killing a few microbes on some ant hill in Africa?"

[dspen2005]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 4 2005, 07:31 PM']Kill the beaver dam fly!
Flies are from Beelzebub, the Lord of the Flies!
They are evil spreaders of filth and disease, and are commonly associated with demonic phenomena!

Seriously though, this is one of the most ridiculous "moral dillemas" I have ever heard of!  Gives new meaning to the word "scrupolosity."  And I always thought "wouldn't hurt a flie" was just a figure of speach!!
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[/quote]

AMEN!!!!! i like you socrates

[philothea]

I wouldn't kill it. It's a small buzzy little cross. Unless there's a danger or a moral imperative, I would try not to rid myself of a harmless nuisance.

I need all the penances I can get.

(Just rescued a fruit fly from my drinking water and set it free. )

[photosynthesis]

I'd just offer it up and deal with the fly. If it gets bad I'd try to catch it and put it outside. If that's not possible than I'd kill it... but I'd only do that if it were absolutely necessary. and it probably isn't.

[Duc_In_Altum]

[quote]Seriously though, this is one of the most ridiculous "moral dillemas" I have ever heard of! Gives new meaning to the word "scrupolosity." And I always thought "wouldn't hurt a flie" was just a figure of speach!![/quote]

So my question now is whether it matters that it's a fly or not. Say a deer wandered into the pool area. Can i put it down?

[philothea]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 4 2005, 06:31 PM']Kill the beaver dam fly!
Flies are from Beelzebub, the Lord of the Flies!
They are evil spreaders of filth and disease, and are commonly associated with demonic phenomena!
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[/quote]

How can a creature created by God not be good?

Only God creates living things.

[scardella]

From someone who does occasionally struggle w/ scruples, you have to evaluate whether this thought is a scrupulous thought, ie "I have to do this because it is better, even if the other is not sinful", or a pushing toward moral perfection, "I WANT to do it this way, because it is better this way and more pleasing to God." It seems really subtle, but it can border on the neurotic side of things. If you're really having trouble with this idea, since it's obviously not sinful to swat/splatter the fly, it's probably a scruple.

Oh, and the deer question: would that be illegal? if not, is it a nuisance or a danger to the pool-going population? if so, would it be scandalous to put it down?

If it's legal, a nuisance/danger, and won't cause scandal to kill it, I'd say you have the right to take it out. Also, the meat it would provide is quite tasty.

Edited October 5, 2005 by scardella

[toledo_jesus]

I think it was hypothetical musing, not scrupulosity.

the deer would probably run into licensing problems, unless there was a clear danger. Deer have sharp hooves you know, and have no qualms about running someone over if they get in their way. So, if there are kids about and they might be hurt and the deer can't be shooed away then I say break out the hunting rifle.

[Duc_In_Altum]

[quote]I think it was hypothetical musing, not scrupulosity.[/quote]

Indeed it was. I just didn't know how to phrase it. Thanks toledo.

peace,

-Joe