another thread on mutual submission

[Dave]

First, let me post a link to my previous thread on mutual submission between husbands and wives: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=33891&st=0&p=596837entry596837"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...37entry596837[/url]

I used Cure's and phatcatholic's responses in replying to this guy.

Well, here's part of his response:

[quote]Dave,

Once again you've missed my points.  They were really quite simple.

1.  In regards to the traditional Catholic teaching of marriage/family
relationships I really don't need a lecture by you (or anyone else for
that
matter) on this issue.  I completely understand that with authority
comes
responsibility (authority vs. charity).  I don't need a twenty minute
lecture on how a husband needs to love his wife.  I know that.  Again,
that
is not what my point was the first place.  My point is that John Paul 2
in
his Encylical "The Role of the Christian Family in the Modern World"
does
not discuss (at all) the "authority" issue like his previous
predecessors
(Casti Connubi as just one example).  You should buy a book called
Denzinger
Guide to Roman Catholicism.  It contains most (if not all) of the
classic
ancient writings of prior Popes and Councils.  To clarify, I find it
interesting that John Paul 2 does not address this issue, when every
other
Pope has......Like it or not this is what Pope Pius X spoke about in
his
encylical on "Modernism".  Interesting.  Another example is that Mother
Angelica bemoans the millions of dollars that Ted Turner donates to the
United Nations.  And rightfully so she does.  But do you know how many
billions of dollars the Vatican itself donates to the United Nations. 
Go
online and read the speech His Holiness Paul XI gave to the U.N. asking
this
enemy (of the Church) for it's hand in "partnership" to solve the
social
ills of the world.  If these aren't examples of modernism at work, then
I
don't know what is.  And I too will admit that I have not read every
encyclical of John Paul 2.  But in regards to the words of the Pope an
encylical (generally speaking) has much more weight that any address
given
on a subject.  I say generally speaking, because if a Pope speaks
(literally) ex cathedra, then all bets are off.  I hope that I'm proven
wrong on this.  I hope you can supply with evidence that the Holy
Father did
speak of this issue of authority.  Why?  Because when man tries to
frusterate God's plan (in this case the proper functioning of the first
true
"church", via the family) man loses.  This is not the case where I need
to
pump up my ego because I think men are better than women.  Actually, I
find
this attack quite childish and insulting.  It is the fact that I LOVE
Christ
and the Church he founded that I fight for it; NOT because I hate it.

2.  You are wrong regarding the issue of silence.  Again traditional
Catholic teaching indicates that under certain cirmustances remaining
silent
on an issue can make someone an accessory to someone's elses sin.  You
can
look this up in any traditional Catholic missal.  The missal I use (Fr.
Lisante's Daily Roman Missal) explains the 9 ways in becoming an
accessory
to sin.  This is part of the meditation he offers in making a proper
examination of conscience before Confession.  If you want another
classic
example go see (or better yet you're invited over to my house to watch
it) A
Man For All Seasons.  The movie speaks for itself on this issue.
[/quote]

[Dave]

No one wants to help me out here?

[phatcatholic]

how can he say that JPII has never spoken about the "authority" of the male in a relationship if he hasn't even read everything that JPII has said on the topic? he read ONE document!! this guy believes what he wants to believe.

also, how is working w/ the United Nations an example of modernism?

as for silence, anyone w/ half a brain knows it doesn't prove anything one way or the other. that's just common logic. i wonder what he would say about pius XII's "silence" during WWII. i guess he was a "modernist" also......

ultimately, in order to prove him wrong you will have to go through JPII's addresses on the theology of the body, and on marriage and relationships and find examples of him upholding the authority of the male in a relationship. that's gonna take some work tho.

good luck to u

pax christi,
phatcatholic