Trinity

[zunshynn]

I believe in the trinity, but I don't really understand why. My Mormon friends say that it doesn't make sense to them because it's always saying that God "sent" his son... and how can he send himself. Help?

[Thumper]

Ask about something simple, why don't you?

First of all, I think it's important to note that the Church's understanding about the Trinity took until at least 325 to be formed into a creed at the Council of Nicaea, and even after that time it took a long while to get everyone on board. Part of the problem is language. 1) Using human language to describe the mystery of God is a dicey business--our language always falls short and the analogies we use to describe God are always more unlike God than they are like God. For example, if I say that "My love is like a red, red rose" I may be getting at the fact it is in full bloom; but I will likely not be trying to indicate that my love has petals or leaves or a green stem, etc. So with our language about God: it can certainly say something about God as he is within the Trinity, but it can never adequately describe the mystery. 2) More particularly, one of the problems faced by the early Church was that terms that were being used to describe the Trinity had different meanings, sometimes nearly opposite meanings, for different groups of people.

That said, the classical definition of the Trinity from the Council of Nicaea is that God is three persons (or hypostases) in one nature (or substance, or ousia). As I said above, coming to a belief about God as Trinity took a long time in order to iron out, and there were many groups who tried to understand it in various ways. These ranged from modalists, who thought that God was one person/nature who simply acted in different ways at different times; to Arians, who throught that Jesus Christ was the supreme creation of God the Father, but was not actually God. Such groups are now considered heretical, although it is worthwhile to notice that sometimes they were simply trying to articulate an understanding of God that the Church later understood in a more complete manner--so some of these groups were not intending to be heretical per se, but their notion of the Trinity was insufficient by later standards.

Part of the reason the Church came to define three persons in one nature was that it needed to reconcile various scripture passages--how, indeed, does God send himself? If God is of one nature, then that insures that the one sent is indeed God (a central point to hold in order to believe that Jesus Christ is savior); meanwhile acknowledgement of three persons accounts for the fact that there seems to be differentiation in God between the Father and the Son (one sends, the other is sent).

I'm afraid that it is rather technical, and isn't very zippy. But I do think it is important to understand that what we say each Sunday in the creed isn't simply a recitation, but gets to the very basics of our beliefs about God, beliefs which it took a great deal of time to describe and to articulate. Also, I should note that while I have described how the Trinity was articulated in the early Church, and thus in a way that is normative for theology, that doesn't mean that theologians haven't been doing good work ever since to try to explain the truth of the Trinity in new ways that remain faithful to the tradition.

Hope that's helpful, and if not let me know and I can give it another shot.

[benedictaj]

Ooooooooh Thumper, thats really interesting. I love meditating on the Blessed Trinity, and thats what helped me to discuss it. (esp with those atheists who try to convince me that Catholics worship three Gods LOL!!!)

[Maria]

I'm in no condition to read long posts LOL (sorry, thumper), but...
Although there is one divine nature, there are three divine persons. The Father is God. God is infinite, including in love. But before creation, what could be the object of His love? Since He has exsisted from all eternity and has been infinite in love from all eternity, from all eternity an object of love must have exsisted. Moreover, for the Father to love that object infinitely, the object must himself be infinitely capable of receiving love. Hence the object of his infinite love is another infinite person. But if they are both infinite, they must share the same nature. And since their love is infinite, it must be another person sharing the same nature.

Or, anyhow, I read something that explained it more or less like that, only it made more sense.

[thessalonian]

I think I heard this from Bishop Fulton Sheen. A man wanted to become Catholic but he couldn't understand and accept the trinity. Therefore the good Bishop was forced to deny him baptism. A while later he came back and said "I now understand the Trinity. I want to become Catholic". The Good Bishop said, "I am sorry I cannot baptize you".

The point is that if we have to have a complete understanding of the Trinity in order to accept it we will never accept it. But that is how God revealed himself. We have an infinite God who is beyond our capacity to fully understand how this truth can be. Yet it is how he revealed himself in scripture, therefore we accept it on faith. A God who is completely comprehensible as the mormon trithiestic and actually polytheistic (because all men who reach the third kingdom become god's) god is no god at all but an idol. We believe in the Trinity because that is what has been revealed through the Church and scriptures. The Mormons have plenty of problems to deal with in scripture like "the father and I are one", "You shall worship THE Lord you God and Him ALONE shall you serve.". There's a whole host of verses they are unable to deal with adequately. You should believe the Trinity, primarily because that is how God is revealed through his Church which is the pillar and support of the truth. Secondarily because that is how God is revealed in the scriptures and tradition. And thirdly because, while not fully comprehensible it is not beyond reason. Especially considering, unlike the Morom God, God is spirit. Jesus was God revealed in the flesh. But God is spirit and so, beyond our comprehension, the persons of God are one God. We do not understand infinite, co-equal, co-eternal, omnipresent spirit, for we are limited, finite, discrete beings. Faith is what belief in the Trinity requires.

Blessings

[Myles Domini]

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1.htm"]Summa Theologica Prima Pars[/url]

Scroll half way down the page for St Thomas Aquinas' treatment of the Holy Trinity

[White Knight]

The most perfect short explaination of the Holy Trinity is this.

Our better yet how to explain that Jesus Christ, was and is God Himself.

[b]Jesus Christ is God because He is the only Son of God, having the same divine nature as His Father.[/b]

[b]http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/incaa1a.htm[/b]